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Post by oleruns on Jan 25, 2007 17:05:36 GMT -9
Should you post an DNF if you only spend two minutes looking? Or, after three one hour trips?
I tend to post no matter how long I look, is that wrong?
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Post by omgcrew on Jan 25, 2007 17:21:37 GMT -9
I figure if I spend more than 15 minutes looking and come up empty handed I will log a DNF. Sometimes I only have a couple minutes to search and wait till I can give it more time. I don't want the owner going to check if I only looked for a few minutes.
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Post by Malcore on Jan 25, 2007 17:35:43 GMT -9
I decided this year that I would log all DNFs no matter the reason. Last year I didn't log many and most of them were if I found somthing wrong with the cache. Although I don't think I tried finding any caches so far if I knew that I would only have a couple minutes to try finding it. I think if I do have that issue I will still log the DNF just to be consistant. I understand more about how a DNF log can help the cache owner keep track of the condition of the cache. So il be loging all DNFs
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powmia
Silver Cacher
Caches Found/Hidden xxxx/x
Posts: 208
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Post by powmia on Jan 25, 2007 18:04:14 GMT -9
Most of my DNF logs all consume time. I do not like doing caches if I don't have the time to look, such as out of the car look for 1 minute because I have to be someplace else soon. I believe just a DNF, the time and date is sufficient. Logs such as "Looked for a while, this baby is missing" or "All I saw was an empty plastic bag..the cache is gone." This will cause me, if I am the owner, to hoof to the cache to verify. I had that problem with "Underwood".....I was visiting my cache almost weekly. Long dissertations also turn off other cachers (why should I waste my time if it is not there). If you really find a disaster, log it. I did this with "Bouncy Balls" when I found the final in 2 parts laying in the bushes. Sometimes I throw in a sympathy note about poor eyes, sore knees, bad health. Sometimes I get a sympathy hint. However, very seldom from the master hiders.
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Post by shadius on Jan 25, 2007 20:20:26 GMT -9
Generally, I assume that a DNF is my fault. If it isn't moving, I can't see it; most caches don't move, so...
But if it is good for the story, or a good story, I will post a DNF - or if I really did try to find it, and it hasn't been found in the last 6 months.
But I think that if you post you only had the oportunity to look for a little bit, that's okay too.
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Post by knappling on Jan 25, 2007 22:20:23 GMT -9
I usually post if I looked in all the places I could think of at the moment.
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Post by Hazelsgroup on Jan 26, 2007 5:01:42 GMT -9
We post a DNF when we spend more than 10 to 15 minutes looking. If we are taken away from the cache sight due to part of the group needing a snack, bathroom break or just a playground break we do not post the DNF.
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Post by ladybugkids on Jan 26, 2007 8:01:44 GMT -9
The following is an excerpt from the gecoaching.com FAQ page: "What do I do if I find out that a cache has gone missing?
If you visit a cache location and the cache is missing, always make sure to log the cache as "not found" on the web site so the cache owner knows. If you notice that the logs show an unusual number of "not found" logs, please inform this web site so we can check on the cache page. The cache can be temporarily disabled so the cache owner can check in on it. Sometimes, though rarely, when the cache owner cannot be contacted we can either allow folks to adopt the cache or have the cache removed completely from the site. We rely a lot on the geocaching community to let us know the status of caches in their area." I feel that ALL types of logs (found it, did not find, needs maitenance, note, etc.) are part of the cache history. The cache history is made up of ALL visits to the cache. For that reason, I log ALL our visits made to ALL caches. The "proper" use of the variety of log types can keep the Cache Owner and other cachers properly informed about the status of a cache. There are no hard and fast rules on geocaching.com about how to log, but the following is my approach based on reading the many "DNF" related and other threads on geocaching.com and from experience as a cache owner. DNF: I use this log any time I visit a cache site and can't find the cache, regardless of how much time I spend looking. I visited the site, didn't find the cache, therefore, I "DNF." The FAQ quote above emphasizes logging if you know a cache is missing, but normally I assume I was just being a klutz for that particular cache, that it's there, and I'll have to come back. As far as I'm concerned, unless I have specific evidence that the cache is destroyed or gone, I'll leave it to the Cache Owner to determine if the cache is, in fact, gone. I keep a bookmark list of my DNFs to help me keep track of where I need to return. The list currently has over a dozen caches on it. Found it: Logged ONLY if I signed the log book for physical caches or followed the logging instructions for an Earthcache or a Virtual Cache. Needs Maintenance: I use this log if the logbook is wet, animals have chewed up the container, the camo has fallen off, or there are other problems with the cache. If I was able to sign the the logbook, then I log both a "Found it" and a "Needs Maintenance." The additional Need Maintenance Log is important because it sets the "maintenance" attribute on the cache page which allows cachers to filter on it when they run a pocket query or use GSAK to select a list of caches. The attribute can be cleared only with an "Owner Maintenance" log by the Cache Owner. Note: I use this type of log if I return to cache after I've previously logged it to pick up or drop off travel bugs and geocoins, or if there is information I want to pass on about the cache (e.g. I'm maintaining a few caches for out of state cachers, one needs maintenance, so I use a Note log to let folks know when I'll have the cache back up and running.) Some folks will use the Note log to document their visit instead of using a DNF if they don't feel they thoroughly searched the area or their search was cut short for any one of a number of reasons as noted above by Hazelsgroup. Should be Archived: This log is used to bring the cache to the Cache Reviewer's attention. It may be used if there are real problems with the placement of the cache (e.g. inappropriate location, the Cache Owner hasn't responded in a timely manner to Needs Maintenance logs, etc.) As the owner of around fifty placed caches, I rely heavily on accurate logs to keep me informed about the state of my caches. I have had a few instances of one of my caches going missing between maintenance visits and several cachers have looked for it without logging a "DNF." Because it took awhile for someone to log that first DNF, several folks ended up wasting a lot of time looking for something that was not there. We WANT our caches to be found, so with a few notable exceptions that could be considered "evil micros," a DNF is usually a real signal that the cache went missing. If I receive a DNF log, I'll drop the cacher a note through their profile asking them where they looked and if they feel like an additional clue would help or if they feel the cache is really gone. I remember the first stage of powmia's "Underwood" cache as being particularly well hidden, so if I'd been the owner, I would have dropped the DNF cachers a note through their profile before running out to check on the cache since it was HIGHLY unlikely that stage would have been muggled. Everyone plays the game a little differently and may choose to log their visits differently. However, as a Cache Owner, I would really like to know everytime someone takes a run at one of my caches. It lets me know cachers are interested in my caches and provided incentive for me to keep hiding. It also keeps the history of the cache complete and accurate.
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powmia
Silver Cacher
Caches Found/Hidden xxxx/x
Posts: 208
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Post by powmia on Jan 26, 2007 15:16:37 GMT -9
I went out today after 3 weeks.....2 DNF within .20 miles by the same owner. I was at my best today (Jan 26 2007). I bet there would be some good recordings if a listening device could be posted near some of the caches I have missed.
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Post by omgcrew on Jan 26, 2007 22:05:44 GMT -9
Q. When to post a DNF?
A. When you are looking for a Oleruns cache in the honor of Scobey.
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Post by oleruns on Jan 27, 2007 11:55:38 GMT -9
You should try again....
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powmia
Silver Cacher
Caches Found/Hidden xxxx/x
Posts: 208
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Post by powmia on Jan 28, 2007 15:28:10 GMT -9
Q. When to post a DNF? A. When you are looking for a Oleruns cache in the honor of Scobey. 3 for 3 on finding Ole's caches Jan 27. They are good...they are numerous...they are fun.
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Post by oleruns on Jan 28, 2007 16:20:45 GMT -9
Thanks! One more on the way in honor of another cacher another snowshoe cache What an awesome day to be outside!
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Post by oleruns on Jan 28, 2007 16:30:27 GMT -9
Well there it is... That published 8 minutes after I submitted it, that has to be a record. I wonder who will be FTF?
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powmia
Silver Cacher
Caches Found/Hidden xxxx/x
Posts: 208
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Post by powmia on Jan 29, 2007 15:15:49 GMT -9
I went out today after 3 weeks.....2 DNF within .20 miles by the same owner. I was at my best today (Jan 26 2007). I bet there would be some good recordings if a listening device could be posted near some of the caches I have missed. I went back today (Jan 29) and converted both DNF to Found. Time spent on the second hunt was probably 2-3 minutes/site. However, the spouse was also present, so different areas were being looked at during the same hunt time. Somedays I just don't have it. I will report the DNF whether it be a few minutes or 30 minutes. I will seldom use more than 30 minutes. After 30 minutes, I would just be confirming my inability to gocache with accurate results.
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Post by ladybugkids on Apr 2, 2009 6:16:22 GMT -9
I wish to publically acknowlege a couple of cachers for their responsiveness or assistance with caches during the past couple of days. I've logged DNFs on three different akbfly caches since Tuesday and she has responded to each, including once with a "friend request." She's already checked one of the caches and will be checking on the other two caches soon. I really appreciate that kind of interaction and conscientious response to potential cache issues. I REALLY, REALLY hope that Chris' Summertime Survival Cache is still where it should be...I'd hate to think that Momima's keys have gone missing for a second time. Secondly, li1gray dropped a note on the cache page for our Black & White and Red All Over webcam cache in Fairbanks alerting me to the fact the url for the webcam had changed. I fixed the link on the cache page this morning so people can still navigate to the camera. Thanks again! This kind of interaction helps everyone have positive cache hunting experiences.
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Post by arcticbutterfly "Akbfly" on Apr 21, 2009 2:02:20 GMT -9
Thanks LBK for the compliments ;D. Chris' Summer Survival Cache has gone MIA for sure. I have searched the area high and low under and within. Short of uprooting the tree. I have disabled it sadly and have been in contact with Momima about the keys. I will be replacing it this week with a new cache and a different spot in the same area. I have a funny feeling that garage town wasnt hapy with it being there even though it wasnt on their property. Have fun and cache on geobuddies!
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Post by NorthWes on Apr 21, 2009 17:12:47 GMT -9
Kudos to arcticbutterfly!
I'm so guilty of not always being proactive about cache maintenance issues, but when I see DNFs I know I need to get out to the cache so I'm not wasting other folks' time hunting. I really truly appreciate folks who take time to let me know there's a problem via the DNF log.
It's always right to log a DNF (at least it shows you were out caching). It's a shame not to let the cache owner know there might be a problem. LBK schooled me in that; we always log our DNFs!
Some of my 'best hides' had to retire because in practice, they kept going missing. That meant they didn't work for the location.
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stoweak
Bronze Cacher
Mr. & Mrs.
Posts: 90
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Post by stoweak on Apr 30, 2009 7:53:44 GMT -9
I've been posting all DNFs for quite some time now, sometimes more than once for the same cache as I've tried to find it unsuccessfully. But in looking back through this thread, I am seeing that you can go back and change the DNF to a found? I had thought about this as I was wondering about the DNF list growing, when I have actually found some of these now. Also, if it is indeed missing and the cache owner has confirmed that - should the log then be deleted? This would certainly clean up the DNF list and leave only those that I really haven't found and want to keep trying on. Let me know what others think. thanks
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Post by ladybugkids on Apr 30, 2009 8:16:19 GMT -9
DNF logs are part of this history of the cache and should be left on the cache page. Once a person finds a cache they previously DNF'd they can add their "Found It" log. There is more than one cache out there that has one or two or more of my DNF logs on it before my found it log appears. I've left all logs intact as a history of my cache-hunting history.
DNF logs on a cache page can help give an indication of the difficulty of the cache hide (in addition to the Difficulty rating) as well as an indication that there may be a problem with a missing cache.
One can keep track of their open DNFs by creating a Bookmark List which can be configured to be public or not.
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stoweak
Bronze Cacher
Mr. & Mrs.
Posts: 90
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Post by stoweak on Apr 30, 2009 8:23:53 GMT -9
thanks, LBK. I knew you (and a few others) would have a good answer and not necessarily the one I wanted to hear, but the one that I was thinking was true to fact. Guess I'll go out in the sunshine this morning and go find me one! not a DNF a thanks
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Post by ladybugkids on Apr 30, 2009 8:29:55 GMT -9
Aw, a DNF log shouldn't be looked at as a badge of shame...just an indication that things didn't go according to plan. I'm coming up on my 250 DNF milestone, so perhaps I'm just shameless.
My last post was my opinion...a person can change a DNF to a Found It and change the date or delete their DNF log and add a new Fount It log. However, doing so revises the cache history and the cacher's logging history.
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stoweak
Bronze Cacher
Mr. & Mrs.
Posts: 90
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Post by stoweak on Apr 30, 2009 8:37:52 GMT -9
nah, I rather like having that list grow and grow - keeps us humble. Also, makes me realise how bad I wanted it if I keep going back (how many times?) and then sometimes - JOY, JOY - found it! I HAVE thought about deleting logs on ones that weren't there, but only after the cache owner has responded as I know that helps them determine if there is a problem with the hide. But there are always more caches to find, so never seem to get around to going back.
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powmia
Silver Cacher
Caches Found/Hidden xxxx/x
Posts: 208
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Post by powmia on Apr 30, 2009 18:07:47 GMT -9
I have no idea how many DNF logs I have. I know it is a bunch. I post it if I can't find it. I have received many replies, some helpful ("Here is a hint... etc etc"), some thankful for letting the owner know, and some really offbeat ("I don't why you can't find it, everyone else has!"). I will probably have to continue posting the DNF logs for as long as I cache.
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Post by ladybugkids on Apr 30, 2009 18:18:42 GMT -9
An easy way to determine one's DNF count is: 1. Click on the "My Profile" link on the left-hand column of the geocaching.com website. 2. Under "My logs (last 30 days)" click on "Show all logs for: 'caches'". 3. Click "Show 'didn't find it'" The number of DNF logs and links to all the DNF logs appears.
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Post by tomanoble on May 1, 2009 23:05:13 GMT -9
Since I often cache with the same caching partner we have agreed that for both of us to post a DNF on the same cache when both of us were searching for it tends to skew the cache statistics so we take turns posting the DNFs. This does not mean that a DNF posted by one of us is a DNF for both of us because we often cache seperately or with other people. It just means that person couldn't find it that day. Both of posting a DNF on the same hunt could cause the cache owner to run out and check a perfectly good cache, especially if some one else recently DNFed the same cache.
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Post by ladybugkids on May 2, 2009 1:02:42 GMT -9
Just my opinion, but both of you not logging your mutual DNF does skew the statistics because when you do find a cache you both log it as found. As a cache owner, multiple DNF logs from a group of cachers would certainly give me more reason to check my cache because groups usually have better luck coming up with the find. Five people not finding a cache is still five cache site visits just like five people finding a cache. Each account holder logging their individual caching experience keeps the cache history "whole," and keeps each account holder's caching history complete.
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powmia
Silver Cacher
Caches Found/Hidden xxxx/x
Posts: 208
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Post by powmia on May 2, 2009 6:27:13 GMT -9
An easy way to determine one's DNF count is: 1. Click on the "My Profile" link on the left-hand column of the geocaching.com website. 2. Under "My logs (last 30 days)" click on "Show all logs for: 'caches'". 3. Click "Show 'didn't find it'" The number of DNF logs and links to all the DNF logs appears. Gosh, so embarrasing...about 10%.
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Post by ladybugkids on May 2, 2009 7:30:40 GMT -9
Gosh, so embarrasing...about 10%. Interestingly, for those who log each of their DNFs and post in the gc.com forums, the average does run about 10%. I've bounced between 9.5% and 10.5% since I became aware of the easy way to check one's DNF count about 150 DNFs ago. Of those 10%, more than half of the caches weren't there based on subsequent cache log activity and/or interaction with the cache owner and my DNF note was the first indication to the cache owner there was a problem.
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Post by Valerieseaker on May 2, 2009 14:26:36 GMT -9
HA! I'm just over 5%!
... 'course, I haven't logged all my DNFs, so I'm not really a superior cacher. Many caches I wouldn't have found if not for other cachers being there and helping me. In reality, by myself I'm probably a 20% DNFer. <sigh>
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