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Post by fuzzybelly on Dec 12, 2014 7:42:28 GMT -9
I've come across a number of these and wonder what people think.
Found one this weekend while caching in Wasilla. I've looked for the cache so many times without the smiley even though GZ is so obvious(or so I've thought). After seeing that it had been found recently I planned it for my run to the valley.
Well sure enough the smiley was there. Later in the evening while logging the smiley I noticed a past finder didn't actually find it but placed a new cache where they where sure it should be, and of course logged the find. Now reading back farther down the list of finders I wonder if I found the correct GZ at all.
How do you all feel about throw downs.
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Post by akgh519 on Dec 12, 2014 9:34:58 GMT -9
Without permission and direction from the cache owner, they should not be done. If one has previously found the cache and GZ, that's another story.
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Post by ladybugkids on Dec 12, 2014 14:44:19 GMT -9
It's my opinion that there are only two conditions when a cacher should place a replacement cache:
1) The cacher previously found the cache and knows the original location, container, camo, and other relevant details and knows for a fact the original container is gone.
2) The cacher is able to contact the Cache Owner and get a bomb proof description of the original location, container, camo, and other relevant details and obtain the Cache Owner's permission to place a new container.
Otherwise, the best thing to do is log a DNF and carry on. Some people will log "Needs Maintenance," but that should be reserved for when the cache was found and it needs Cache Owner attention. One can't know a cache needs maintenance if you didn't actually see/touch it. Others will log "Needs Archived," and that should be reserved for if the cache has Guideline issues or other problems that warrent Reviewer attention.
To place a new container and log a find is akin to logging a find on one's own cache hide.
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Post by SSO JOAT on Dec 13, 2014 16:04:06 GMT -9
Agree with the others... the "throw down" cache is very poor sportsmanship in this game. Cache replacement should only be done with the CO's direct permission.
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Post by fuzzybelly on Dec 14, 2014 16:53:20 GMT -9
It's true that it's different if you call the CO and they can describe where the container should sit. Maybe they can't visit the site often so you're just helping them out. I've had that done for me. That can also cause issues though, I've had two container at one GZ before.
In another case a cacher wont even contact the CO but rather drop a new container where they THINK it should be presumable so they can get the smiley and push the numbers.
The CO should be the only person to replace a cache container. As I think about it, or do any maintenance for that matter, short of a new log sheet.
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Op_Beardo
Bronze Cacher
Posts: 66
GeocacheAlaska! Membership Level: Cheechako
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Post by Op_Beardo on Dec 15, 2014 21:09:54 GMT -9
I have replaced a couple caches in my time caching but only ones that were clearly muggled...etc and in my experience (strictly personal experience) the co emailed and thanked me for the assist! In fact one cache that I have been babysitting for a while now I have just adopted! I figure if you do your thing in good taste and dont act like a fool nobody is going to be mad with your efforts to keep the game alive! I agree with everyone on this post when it comes to...just because you cant find it... dosnt mean you should do anything other than dnf it!!!
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Post by SSO JOAT on Dec 16, 2014 10:50:37 GMT -9
I think there is a notable difference between maintaining a known cache and the "throw down" cache. I've maintained many known caches for other CO's, especially along the eastern Glenn or southern Richardson highways since I drive them so often for work.
By "throw down" cache, I believe Fuzzy is referring to the practice where some "numbers" cachers (often traveling road cachers with very high find counts, from my witnessed experience) would carry a bag full of cheap micros (film cans, etc) with blank logs in them. They would get to a typical road-side micro cache, search for a few minutes and if they can't find the original cache, they place one of their blank-log "throw down" caches at some spot that seems likely close to the published coordinates. They may even write the original cache name &/or GC# on the log before signing it themselves. Then they log a "found it" and ride off to the next cache, never looking back at the mess they just caused.
I've actually found throw down caches where the original cache was still in place. If you have a history of logs with many scattered DNF's on a high difficulty rated cache where people talk about how sneaky or clever it is, and you waltz up and find a film can tucked in the most obvious spot on a guard rail near the coordinates with a new or fairly new logsheet inside, you should be thinking "throw down" and maybe contact the CO directly to confirm.
My opinion... folks who "throw down" a cache in such a manner (because they can't find the original and just want to get the smilie and move on) are just as bad as the muggles who steal caches.
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Post by akgh519 on Dec 16, 2014 15:57:34 GMT -9
People play the game differently.
I am on a FB page where people are mailing trackables to get them near or to their goals...don't think that was the way things were intended to progress...
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Post by SSO JOAT on Dec 16, 2014 20:07:45 GMT -9
Stargates did the same thing. I don't see a problem with that. There is no "rule" on how a trackable has to move from place to place, though the owner can request certain things in the TB goal.
Pretty close to apples and oranges though. If you tried to make the same comparison to "throw down" caches, it would be like someone taking a TB out of a cache, removing whatever thing the dog tag is attached to, tossing that item away, and then putting their own "throw down" item on the dog tag. It's no longer the same TB, even though it has the original dog tag on it. The original hitch hiker item is now lost, even though the tags are still getting miles and logs. None of the people after that point are discovering the original trackable.
Nobody after the "throw down" is finding the original cache. There are exceptions, of course. One could point out the Area 51 power trails where every single cache is the same film can and the owners encourage replacement of non-complicated and unoriginal hides. And one could certainly make the argument for the abandoned 1/1.5 roadside cache that is a simple micro on a guardrail or similar where the CO is inactive and the cache has pretty obviously been muggled.
My dislike of the throw down is in regard to the "evil" hides that the CO put effort into and somebody tosses down a film can because they can't find the original hide.
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Post by fuzzybelly on Dec 17, 2014 7:34:20 GMT -9
By "throw down" cache, I believe Fuzzy is referring to the practice where some "numbers" cachers (often traveling road cachers with very high find counts, from my witnessed experience) would carry a bag full of cheap micros (film cans, etc) with blank logs in them. They would get to a typical road-side micro cache, search for a few minutes and if they can't find the original cache, they place one of their blank-log "throw down" caches at some spot that seems likely close to the published coordinates. They may even write the original cache name &/or GC# on the log before signing it themselves. Then they log a "found it" and ride off to the next cache, never looking back at the mess they just caused. Yep you nailed it JOAT. That's the "Throw down" I'm talking about. Those are the ones that I don't like. For instance the one I'm speaking of just hasn't been maintained by the CO for a long long time and now it's alive again. My opinion has changed with the time I've been in the game, but I say, it could have gone through the archive process and in the end opened up a spot for a cache that IS maintained. It is interesting to hear all the different actions that are taken that we don't consider a throw down. I agree with a lot of the thoughts.
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