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Post by davemeister on Mar 30, 2010 17:34:20 GMT -9
Is it just me or am I noticeing a lack of attributes being poted on more caches recently. I guess I'm griping a little since I use these heavily in my pocket queries. I'm definately don't want to call folks out as there are some fine caches and great cachers that don't have attributes listed. My concern is that I might not visit these caches due to the lack of attributes listed. I know that they are not mandatory but man they really help me personally decide on which caches to go for. For example, If it doesn't have the snowflake on it, why would I go and hunt for it if it may be buried in several feet of snow. In fact, the cache maybe perfectly available in winter and at eye level as has been shown with several finds in the last months. Thanks for letting me vent and for my sake, please consider adding those attributes....please? Pretty please with a cherry on top? Dave (Team Meister)
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Post by NorthWes on Mar 31, 2010 18:19:38 GMT -9
Dave, I feel your pain & agree 100%. Perhaps some cachers don't know how to click on the 'attributes' button when they edit their cache. If you're a cacher who doesn't know how, come out to one of the GeocacheAlaska! Geocaching FUNdamental Events (held monthly) & I can guarantee there'll be a person there with an internet connection who can show you how it gets done.
Attributes are a HUGE help to cachers!
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Post by ladybugkids on Dec 30, 2012 18:27:57 GMT -9
I've been noticing some cache logs commenting on caches with the attribute not really being "winter friendly," which the cachers seem to interpret as meaning above ground level. The attribute actually means "available in winter." I use it on my caches that are accessible in winter without putting the cache seeker at risk (e.g. requiring travel through avalanche country). I figure that placement of an ammo can in close proximity to a good geobeacon with a meaningful hint will guide a person to a quick find with a few probes of a ski pole or light shovel. On the other hand, I use the "not available for winter" attribute for caches that are truly inaccessible (e.g. I have one that gets locked down under several feet of aufeis (overflow) each winter). I think it would be fair to use this attribute for micro caches places in nondescript locations where they can be buried by snow or frozen in place and a meaningful hint is not provided. What are other cacher's thoughts on the use of these two attributes?
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Post by fuzzybelly on Dec 30, 2012 19:47:53 GMT -9
ALASKAN winter friendly is different than in other areas of the country.
Name me one Alaskan cacher who's never used a shovel before, or carry gloves with them.
If it's on the ground and not probing friendly (poking and prodding )(Not an ammo can) then it's not winter friendly. But any size cache that is OFF the ground in the state of Alaska, should be considered winter friendly. A little snow removal for us shouldn't represent NON winter friendly.
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Post by SSO JOAT on Dec 30, 2012 19:54:57 GMT -9
I tend to agree with you, but have a little more restriction on the use of the "available" phase. To me, it's more about find-ability of the cache rather than the risk of getting there. So, even though you can get to GZ, access to the cache should be very obvious with a cache size and type that works in winter. For instance, if the container is plastic, then it is not winter friendly as the plastic becomes fragile and it takes very little impact with a probe to break the container.
I agree with your not available criteria. If the cache is going to be near impossible to find or the cache owner simply does not want people to risk searching the area during the winter, then this one should light up.
I think there is a 3rd option. If the cache might be findable by a dedicated winter cacher, but is probably not a good one for park-n-grabbers, then just leave this attribute turned off. You can make a simple note on the listing about winter access and leave it up to the cacher to decide. Those looking for easy winter access are going to filter looking for a positive hit on the "available" tag. Those looking for more challenge might just filter out the "not available" tags and leave everything else on the list.
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burtonsinak
Bronze Cacher
Posts: 60
GeocacheAlaska! Membership Level: Sourdough
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Post by burtonsinak on Dec 31, 2012 12:02:21 GMT -9
I think that winter friendly means, with the snow flake showing on attributes means it would be accessable in winter above the average snow line. Other wise most would be winter friendly unless they are frozen in ice and must be chipped out. Here in Ak it makes a diff. other wise you will need to read each discription and or log to find out and that is geeting more time consumming and takeing the fun out.
When we do a pocket quary, we ask for winter friendly and that should eleminate the ones on the ground and not marked.
If we want to do others that are not or amo cans barried in the snow we then have a choice before going to look up and prepair to dig. Since gps gets us close and not exact we could do alot of probing and digging to find them. Even by probing and digging they can not be found if under tree limps or roots in holes ect. as many are.
I agree with sso that the plastic ones can be broken and punched wich ruins them, as im sorry to say i have done this and its hard to repair or have one biggenough in hand to replace or that fit in hiding place.
So it seems there a diff. thoughts of what snow flake means( i couldnt get it to past there). In the 48 not as much a meaning but there are snow places there too but not as long of winters for the most part. Can we come up with an ageed meaning/deffinition?
As my wife keeps reminding me there are many ways to play this game, but i find if everyone is not playing with the same guidlines then its not as fun playing. and im guessing some have left/quit playing because of disagreements and unhappyness with things an dproblems.
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Post by ladybugkids on Dec 31, 2012 12:52:50 GMT -9
I think that winter friendly means, with the snow flake showing on attributes means it would be accessable in winter above the average snow line. Other wise most would be winter friendly unless they are frozen in ice and must be chipped out. Here in Ak it makes a diff. other wise you will need to read each discription and or log to find out and that is geeting more time consumming and takeing the fun out. I think a lot of this issue could be resolved if cachers would actually provide a useful hint. However, many people for some reason leave the field blank or, worse yet, populate the field with a non-useful hint such as "none needed." If I didn't need the hint, I wouldn't be decrypting it in the first place. If the local consensus if that "available in winter" (what the attribute says when one hovers over it, not "winter friendly") attribute should only be used if the cache is above the snow line, then I'll go with SSO JOAT's suggestion and just take the attribute off my cache pages and let people decide for themselves whether the cache write up and hint provide enough information for a successful hunt. Before I do that, I need to see more people participate in this thread.
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Post by fuzzybelly on Dec 31, 2012 17:00:42 GMT -9
Rules, rules, rules. This is one of the things I love about this game......there ain't many. Trade equal or trade up. Keep it family friendly. Leave no trace. Have fun.
There are many caches that don't tell the truth completely. That's up the the cache hider, it's their cache that they are allowing others to find. Winter friendly means different things for different folks, and that's OK. Ask Coloriedo and 519, heck, I did a dig on one of LBK's caches last winter that kicked my butt, but the feeling after finding it was awesome.
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Post by tomanoble on Dec 31, 2012 20:09:14 GMT -9
I think that if the snowflake attribute is used a geocacher should have a REASONABLE chance of finding the cache. If the cache owner thinks providing a killer hint will be enough to find the cache even if it is covered with snow then use it. In the past I have seen some with this symbol which were so frozen in ice/overflow that even though I had a good idea where they were recovery would have been impossible without major ice removal. There have also been those that did not have this symbol that were a breeze to find in winter.
In essence I agree it is up to the cache owner whether to use the symbol or not and how accessible the cache might be given an "average" winter. Whatever that is.;
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