|
Post by li1gray on Nov 7, 2008 22:15:31 GMT -9
Was thinking about getting a group together on Saturday evening about 6pm to do the transparent man night cache. Feel free to e-mail at my yahoo accoun li1gray @ Y A H O O . C O M . (spaced out for spamers so they can't fill the inbox with junk mail) You can e-mail or just show up right now I think Davemeister and Crew as well as possibly Cohofive my be there, the more the merrier, I am going to try and make the Flash Mob and mention it there as well! Thanks and have a great weekend caching!
|
|
|
Post by FrostG1anT on Nov 7, 2008 22:29:48 GMT -9
I recommend a little later start and VERY good flash lights, this is NOT head lamp friendly. It isn't too difficult, but without the proper lights it will be challenging at best. Wait until it is dark to head out, as any ambient daylight will be a hinder and not a help. Enjoy and Cache On!
|
|
|
Post by tomanoble on Nov 8, 2008 0:47:18 GMT -9
Blazingpathways and I are going to go do GCTX3A LONE POST Saturday night 11-08-08. We plan to meet at the parking coordinates given on the cache page at 7pm. After successfully completing this night cache we plan to go do GC1HPNN Transparent Man, in Kincaid. Feel free to invite anyone else you may know and might be interested. The more the merrier.
|
|
|
Post by li1gray on Nov 8, 2008 22:55:26 GMT -9
I recommend a little later start and VERY good flash lights, this is NOT head lamp friendly. It isn't too difficult, but without the proper lights it will be challenging at best. Wait until it is dark to head out, as any ambient daylight will be a hinder and not a help. Enjoy and Cache On! Well for the 2nd attempt at this cahce the group had it very easy as the traillights were off on this section of trail tonight which made it very easy! It was still a very nice night cache! Thanks for the fun!
|
|
|
Post by SSO JOAT on Nov 9, 2008 7:01:31 GMT -9
Very interesting cache listing. Sounds like a fun cache.
I've got a question about the cache-type listings of these night caches. I've noticed a couple of them are listed as puzzle caches. But in my mind they are a multi-cache. Reason is that you don't have to solve anything before going to the field. The published waypoint is your starting location and from there you get the info to proceed to the next waypoint, then the next, etc. The structure is clearly multi, so why are some of these listed as puzzles?
|
|
|
Post by ladybugkids on Nov 9, 2008 9:50:27 GMT -9
I've got a question about the cache-type listings of these night caches. I've noticed a couple of them are listed as puzzle caches. But in my mind they are a multi-cache. Reason is that you don't have to solve anything before going to the field. The published waypoint is your starting location and from there you get the info to proceed to the next waypoint, then the next, etc. The structure is clearly multi, so why are some of these listed as puzzles? Joat asks a good question. From the geocaching guidelines:Multi-Caches : "The most common is that in which the first container or waypoint contains or provides coordinates to the next location. Another popular variant is a series of multiple waypoints, each of which provide partial coordinates for the final cache’s position... Offset caches are a variation on multi-caches. They are listed as a multi-cache when selecting a cache type. They are not found by simply going to some coordinates and finding a cache there. With the offset cache the published coordinates could be of an existing historical monument, plaque, or even a benchmark that you would like to have your cache hunter visit. At this spot, the hunter looks for numbers or information already appearing on the marker or on some part of the marker or site (geocachers NEVER deface public or private property). The geocacher is then able to manipulate these numbers or information using instructions posted on the cache page to continue the hunt." The way I read this is that if the cache can be solved with information available on site (which all night caches I've done can), then it should be listed as a multi. Our Fairbanks area night cache, " Operation Arctic Knights" is listed as a multi-cache. Mystery or Puzzle Caches : "The "catch-all" of cache types, this form of cache often involves complicated puzzles that you will first need to solve in order to determine the coordinates...Caches with mandatory requirements in addition to signing the logbook should be listed as mystery caches. Examples include sending the cache owner a verification codeword found inside the logbook, performing some task at the cache location and taking a photograph, or writing the online log in a format or with content that satisfies the cache requirements. The mystery cache designation assists finders in identifying that something extra is required in order to log a find." Recent examples of the latter are " Dammit, Janet!" which requires a photo to be posted with one's log and " 2 Infinity & Beyond," which requires the finder to post their transit time from parking to the cache. So, if I were to place another night cache, I would publish it as a multi-cache with the flashlight icon: I agree with others that night caches should not be posted as Traditional Caches ...I've seen several logs where cachers tried to find a cache designated as such without realizing they were getting into a night cache. There are also several multi caches in the Anchorage area that require up front internet searches to solve for coordinates which I would have thought would make them mystery/puzzle caches. All the above posted, perhaps those who have recently posted night caches as mystery caches and multi-caches up front research might have some additional insight to share based on exchanges had with reviewers prior to their caches being published?
|
|
|
Post by FrostG1anT on Nov 9, 2008 9:58:21 GMT -9
Very interesting cache listing. Sounds like a fun cache. I've got a question about the cache-type listings of these night caches. I've noticed a couple of them are listed as puzzle caches. But in my mind they are a multi-cache. Reason is that you don't have to solve anything before going to the field. The published waypoint is your starting location and from there you get the info to proceed to the next waypoint, then the next, etc. The structure is clearly multi, so why are some of these listed as puzzles? The big blue question mark is for Puzzle/Mystery caches. It encompasses all types of caches which are not included (with approval of GroundSpeak) in the traditional style listing. Multi-caches require each coordinate to be posted and published and contain something that will give a new coordinate to the cacher. Night caches can be either Mystery/Puzzle or Multi-caches, but statistically more people do not do Multi-caches than all other cache types for whatever reason. The big blue question mark is also used if the cache is a traditional type but requires something from the finder other than signing their name to the log, for example a picture must be taken or a date/time recorded for them to claim the find.
|
|
|
Post by SSO JOAT on Nov 9, 2008 11:19:30 GMT -9
Multi-caches require each coordinate to be posted and published and contain something that will give a new coordinate to the cacher. Now I would argue that point. The guidelines do not require every point to be published, only the initial point. The remaining points as well as the final cache can be hidden waypoints. Each point does not need to have a physical cache, you can be required just to answer a question about something at the location and couple that with the cache listing info to come up with the next point. In the case of a night cache, when you get to the point, you use your required flashlight to search for the next reflector. That is the information leading to the next point. I would also assume that during the layout of the cache, the hider recorded a waypoint at each reflector and entered those into the listing as hidden during the work up with the point type being "question to answer" or "stages of a multi" as appropriate. BTW, my inquisition is due to my own interest in placing a night cache down in the Soldotna/Kenai area. There is currently one such cache, which is also listed as a puzzle cache. The curious thing about this cache is that it uses descriptions of physical objects along a trail system to get your points from. The last leg is the only part that requires a flashlight to key in on the final cache, but many folks have found it during the daytime (see GCYKMG). An additional night cache concept is born out of my winter motorized recreation by snowmobile down in the Caribou Hills area. That region of the map is devoid of caches and I intend to change that. So I've been thinking about ways to incorporate some longer distance multi-caches along some of the main trails since nearly all travel down there is by snowmobile or dog sled. I can envision a reflector based night cache trail being an easy concept to work out since it can be done on the go using the snowmobile's headlight. But anyone who's seen how many twists I built into the Slikok Cipher Project will know that it won't be just as simple as driving from reflector to reflector on the groomed trail. Anyhow, just working out some conceptual stuff in the noggin right now, so I like looking outside my area to see what others have done to stimulate some new ideas.
|
|
|
Post by FrostG1anT on Nov 9, 2008 13:07:27 GMT -9
The guidelines do not require every point to be published, only the initial point. Actually the rules do require every point of a multi to be submitted and accounted for if only to be stored in the database at GroundSpeak. For a multi-cache you as the viewer of the cache page will not see the other way-points but they are listed in the database and are attached to the cache on the back end. The approvers and admins for GroundSpeak can see them. Each stage of a multi-cache must meet the requirements for traditional cache placement if it is a physical container. To clarify, if there is a placard that contains coordinates at stage two which leads the finder to stage three, then the coords for stage two MUST be no closer than 528' (.10 mile) from any cache. If the multi requires the finder to go someplace and get information off a sign or building or something that they, the hider do not own or have control of then the coordinates for that stage of the hide do not need to meet the standard cache placement guidelines. This is important when placing multi-stage caches as if a pre-existing cache or cache portion which falls under the rules set forth by GroundSpeak where to be to close to a portion of the multi the approver will not approve it. Also if the points from beginning to end are several miles apart then the cache would be placed as a multi-cache as the suggested offset for puzzles is 2 miles, but that is a guideline and is up to the approver to make the call. The approvers are good people who are general very informative and 'go by the book' as far as the established rules are concerned. If you have a new concept or idea it is always a good idea to run it by an approver before putting several hours of work into it and then be disappointed when it is not able to be approved for whatever reason. Not to make this reply more wordy or possibly confusing than it already is, I look forward to going down to the Peninsula and doing your new and exciting cache. Having spent more than 20 years just down the road from Caribou Hills, it would be nice to go in after a new style of hide. Good luck and if you need any advice or assistance feel free to contact me offline and I will gladly help if I can.
|
|
|
Post by SSO JOAT on Nov 9, 2008 14:27:32 GMT -9
LOL, the description of multi-cache waypoints that we've both provided to each other says the exact same thing. I think we've simply hung up on the term "publish". When I say published, I mean visible to the whole world. The hidden waypoints are part of the cache listing, but are not visible to the public, only to the owner and reviewer, hence they are not "published". Other than that, we are in perfect alignment.
|
|
|
Post by li1gray on Nov 9, 2008 19:26:48 GMT -9
Well as a fellow night cache owner I will say it was a toss up as to which one of the symbols I used as in our cache description as it is a multi and a night cache. But based on others we've done most are logged as Mystery caches so I went with that as you really don't know what to expect from the cache hider in the case of these caches. Some are very straight forward and others you may spend "hours" doing them. They are all fun and I look forward to doing them all. I think they are the best type of "group caching" to do as well! Only have the beginning and the ends marked as when you need to go back in to do MX on the cache sometimes it is easier to come in from a different direction then the way you placed the reflectors. Just my 2 cents...
|
|
|
Post by Valerieseaker on Nov 10, 2008 10:19:23 GMT -9
as the suggested offset for puzzles is 2 miles, Are you saying the blue question mark should be at least 2 miles from the cache location, or no more than 2 miles away? I wondered this when I was doing my 2 puzzles. How far/close should the question mark be? I feel the question mark should be somewhat in the general location of the cache, so in Anchorage, the same part of town. But I didn't want it too obvious what park/woods/chunk of undeveloped land the cache is in.
|
|
|
Post by FrostG1anT on Nov 10, 2008 10:55:10 GMT -9
Are you saying the blue question mark should be at least 2 miles from the cache location, or no more than 2 miles away? The actual location and where the "false" coordinates are should be no more than 2 miles from the cache. The two miles is a guideline and not set in stone. While sometimes they will look at the map and see what the false coordinate is and let it go as it can actually work as a hint to solving a puzzle. Most times they like to stay within the 2-3 mile range of distance from posted coord to actual coord. That being said there was once a puzzle with false coords outside of Girdwood that the final was in Anchorage. Just remember that caches placed prior to the rule changes in early 2007 may not adhere to the posted rules today as they have been grandfathered into the game, much the way Virtual and web-cam caches have been.
|
|