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Post by akgh519 on Feb 8, 2013 22:05:28 GMT -9
With the 2012 CSP Permit about to expire, I was curious if anyone knows the permit number for 2013 or the status of the permit?
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Post by SSO JOAT on Feb 8, 2013 22:53:31 GMT -9
The current permit is good through Feb 24, 2013. Cavy is working on the 2013 renewal permit. The moment we get it back from State Parks it will be posted on the website.
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Post by akgh519 on Feb 16, 2013 13:13:35 GMT -9
Anything new on the permit? It expires next week!
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Post by NorthWes on Feb 16, 2013 17:23:51 GMT -9
I know it's in at CSP. Randy's trying to get the shape files from Tom again.
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Post by jonnygeoseed on Mar 4, 2013 20:29:14 GMT -9
this may be a dumb question, but are these permits for everyone to use? i owe some cache karma
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Post by SSO JOAT on Mar 4, 2013 20:56:28 GMT -9
Absolutely! GeocacheAlaska! negotiates these blanket permits with area land managers so that all our geocachers can use them. This allows us to negotiate good permit terms by combining our forces into a single entity. It also saves a LOT of headaches for both individual cachers as well as the land managers who don't have to deal with securing individual permits for every geocache that is placed. The proverbial win-win!
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Post by ladybugkids on Mar 5, 2013 7:49:02 GMT -9
To pile onto SSO JOAT's post, we also encourage ALL Alaskan geocachers to join GeocacheAlaska! at least at the free Cheechako level, so when we negotiate these permits, we can tell the Land Manager we represent a group of XXX (258 currently) geocachers. The bigger the membership, the more leverage the group has with the Land Manager. Cachers may join GeocacheAlaska! by downloading a pdf form and mailing it in or joining online via PayPal. Membership details are located here on the GeocacheAlaska! website.
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Post by jonnygeoseed on Mar 5, 2013 13:10:30 GMT -9
Absolutely! GeocacheAlaska! negotiates these blanket permits with area land managers so that all our geocachers can use them. This allows us to negotiate good permit terms by combining our forces into a single entity. It also saves a LOT of headaches for both individual cachers as well as the land managers who don't have to deal with securing individual permits for every geocache that is placed. The proverbial win-win! Thanks- I'd assumed so, just hadn't found the right info page yet.
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Post by SSO JOAT on Mar 5, 2013 13:39:39 GMT -9
All the permits are posts on our Land Managers webpage. There are instructions for specific areas and the ones where we have obtained a blanket permit have the permit posted for download. It's important to download and read the permit for the area you're going to place a cache, as each area has different requirements. As a general rule, caches placed in our park lands need to be in an animal resistant container (metal ammo cans) and it must have the permit number clearly written on the outside the container and inside the logbook. Your contact info should be on the logbook (link to your GC username is generally sufficient). To further promote good relationships with land managers, you should paint all ammo cans to as to cover up any military writing. Mark the outside of the container with the word "GEOCACHE" so that it is quite clear what the container is for. Never damage the environment when placing the cache; no nails, screws, or other permanent or penetrating fixtures. If you use string, cord, or rope never wrap it tightly around a tree as the tree will continue to grow and the cord will cut the bark and potentially kill the tree. You must visit your parks caches at least once per year. CITO the area around your cache and ensure the container is still functional and the contents are in good shape. Remove anything with an odor (food or any other "smelly" item) that has been left by the ignorant or malicious. Failure to follow simple procedures like these has gotten geocaching banned from many places, including some local areas here in Alaska.
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Post by fuzzybelly on Mar 13, 2013 8:05:59 GMT -9
really good question JGS.
LBK and JOAT already said it but the main thing I like is that GeocacheAlaska goes in as an organization representing ALL Alaska cachers to talk with the state park people and other land managers. This keeps ALL cachers(even those who are not even a free member of GCak) in the good graces with them. The more members we have, even non-paying members(cheechako, rather than sourdough member) give us cachers greater pull.
Be sure to keep asking any of your questions at this forum, everyone will help, even the dumb ones, these guys have already heard all the dumbest questions from me, so they won't be shocked.
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Post by fuzzybelly on Mar 13, 2013 8:15:14 GMT -9
I meant even the dumb questions, not even the dumb people will help. LOL oopps But know you know what I mean in my last paragraph
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Post by ladybugkids on Mar 13, 2013 10:18:42 GMT -9
Can you give an example of a "dumb question?" I don't think I've ever heard one.
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Post by fuzzybelly on Mar 15, 2013 8:16:35 GMT -9
Thank you for asking LBK, yes I can. Vhdtke fuskm wei, sumd dyhks sdjdun?
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Post by SSO JOAT on Mar 15, 2013 10:24:58 GMT -9
Language not detected.
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Post by fuzzybelly on Mar 16, 2013 7:37:16 GMT -9
What is this that I read in another Tread. New Caches will not be allowed in Chugach State Park until the new permit number is received?
Is That True? The old Number will not suffice until the next arrives?
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Post by ladybugkids on Mar 16, 2013 9:50:27 GMT -9
What is this that I read in another Tread. New Caches will not be allowed in Chugach State Park until the new permit number is received? Is That True? The old Number will not suffice until the next arrives? No hides will be published until the permit is in hand? That is correct. No new caches will be published within Chugach State Park boundaries until a current Chugach State Park geocaching permit has been issued. In the meantime, geocaches placed within Chugach State Park are being reviewed for compliance with all other guidelines and the location "held/reserved" until the new permit is issued. Once the new permit is issued, the Cache Owner must place the correct permit number on the cache page and on the geocache and comply with any other permit stipulations. Once all permit stipulations are met, the cache will be published. This is a compromise because, technically, geocachers should not be placing geocaches within Chugach State Park without a valid permit number in the first place. Cachers who are interested in helping with the permitting process are encouraged to become members of the Advocacy Committee by contacting NorthWes or cavyguy.
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Post by NorthWes on Mar 16, 2013 10:31:16 GMT -9
The Advocacy Committee could use help from anyone interested in keeping up the record of caches inside state park boundaries. Permits require periodic updates of those caches in the form of a list sent in to the permit office, and that's a requirement which will mean we need to stay on top of a periodic list update. That "period" of time isn't set in stone yet.
The process uses GSAK and "shape files" to sort through a pocket query, which then produces a list. It's a simple process once we have the shape files. Simple - if we have enough committee members! We'd like to have the state split out by regions to help spread the workload. Interior, Mat-Su, Chugach (huge park by itself), and Kenai Pen/PWS could each use a committee member for the respective regions. As geocaching has grown, park managers are asking for a bit more information. All we need is four folks willing to do a little GSAK computer work every few months to stay "up to date" to help speed up permit renewals and keep our permit updates current
Right now our Chugach permit request is caught in a backlog at Parks. Randy is working to get our request moved ahead, but it's in the State's hands. We could use your help now to be better prepared to file our 2014 request in late November 2013!
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Post by SSO JOAT on Mar 16, 2013 12:11:12 GMT -9
My suggestion would be to have a single depository for all the shape files (on our website) and have a single person responsible for pulling a current GSAK filter result off a current full-state PQ on demand. Since the results can change daily, the info is stale immediately after the source PQs (it requires 6 of them to capture the whole state right now) are generated at GC.com. It doesn't take a "regional" person to run a GSAK filter and then export to CSV text file and import with Excel to produce a nice list. Here is a sample of a PQ to GSAK to CSV to Excel spreadsheet process that took about 5 minutes to complete (Lat/Long fields were removed because there are PM caches on the list)... SampleCacheList.xlsx (273 KB) That part is pretty simple for a computer geek... once we have ALL the needed shape files in hand and know which ones go with which park permits. Frankly, the details of keeping up with this aspect of the caches list really needs to have as few hands involved as possible to keep the output at the same accuracy level throughout the state. What we need on a regional basis is a face person for each of the parks offices that is issuing permits. IMHO, where it appears we run into problems is in dealing remotely with managers via email communication. I believe we'll get much better results when we have a club advocate walk into the parks office with permit applications and cache lists in hand. We can talk to the manager, answer their questions, provide good info about geocaching (rather than hoping they know something about it, and what they "know" is true) and explain in detail what we desire to have on a permit. It allows for some negotiation of the permit terms with some realistic guidelines for the organization and the geocachers we represent. All that aside, the Advocacy Committee most certainly needs more folks directly involved to assist with these functions.
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Post by NorthWes on Mar 17, 2013 18:20:31 GMT -9
OK - I see your logic clearly on this, Scott. Good points. So we're now looking for a computer geek to command the land files, and some cachers to put a smile on their face as they go to meet the local park ranger.
Actually, I can see clearly how State Parks are moving towards having ALL park use permits of more than a casual scale being run through the Soldotna statewide permit office. Find a computer geek in the 'hood down there, Scott!
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Post by ladybugkids on Mar 17, 2013 18:28:57 GMT -9
Don't need to look that far away. Tomanoble and Blazingpathways obtained the shape files we have and provided a procedure on how to generate a list of caches.
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cavyguy
Silver Cacher
Posts: 175
GeocacheAlaska! Membership Level: Sourdough
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Post by cavyguy on Mar 20, 2013 9:37:47 GMT -9
We are working on this thru multiple angles at this time. I will provide all of the information I have at our meeting tomorrow night
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Post by SSO JOAT on Mar 29, 2013 1:46:35 GMT -9
The Chugach permit was reissued and in our hands last night. It is posted on our Land Manager page. Some stipulations in the permit have changed and the new permit represents a consolidation of multiple regions into a single State Park permit. The new permit number is 13-KA-1289, which must be marked on your cache containers. Note that annual CO Maintenance logs are mandatory with the owner signing the physical log book at least once per year. www.geocachealaska.org/documents/2013ASP-Permit-CSP-KRSMA-KBSP-PWS.pdfPost your questions...
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Post by fuzzybelly on Mar 29, 2013 7:29:48 GMT -9
I'm just going to stay quiet.
have a nice day.
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Post by ladybugkids on Mar 29, 2013 8:10:57 GMT -9
Are all existing caches grandfathered, or do all State Parks caches now have to have a documented annual cache owner visit? That can be tricky for some caches given they are accessible for only a few weeks out of the year and if weather and cacher schedule don't align to allow a visit, they will fall out of compliance.
This new requirement will certainly curtail the number and location of new caches I place in Chugach State Park just due to time and logistics to visit them in subsequent years.
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Post by fuzzybelly on Mar 29, 2013 8:29:39 GMT -9
OK I was just kidding, i won't stay quiet.
I don't even know all the boundaries where this permit is required. Once I figure that out I will be pulling all my cache from these locations. I think that will include all my caches from Portage Valley, but I'm not sure.
after all the issues we had getting this complete(on the states side, mind you, I'm speaking of) along with the ADDED rules they have placed. I no long support the permit requirement.
It's kinda crazy if you think about it. They wont even allow a earth cache. It has no container and only bring visitors to the area.
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Post by ladybugkids on Mar 29, 2013 8:34:07 GMT -9
EarthCaches are permitted as stated in the first sentence of "Description of Authorized Activity." Portage Valley is in Chugach National Forest, NOT Chugach State Park. Chugach State Park extends along the Seward Highway to just before the Girdwood turn. Several maps of Chugach State Park may be found here.The permit stipulations could be tougher. There are Land Managers in the Lower 48 and elsewhere that charge a fee per cache and require the cache to be moved annually to minimize the creation of social trails.
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Post by akgh519 on Mar 29, 2013 10:52:32 GMT -9
Lots of things to consider moving forward.... Note that the permit is only good through the end of the calendar year ie expires on 12/31/2013 Annual visits....hmmmmm....
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Post by NorthWes on Mar 29, 2013 10:56:16 GMT -9
The Chugach permit was reissued and in our hands last night. It is posted on our Land Manager page. Some stipulations in the permit have changed and the new permit represents a consolidation of multiple regions into a single State Park permit. The new permit number is 13-KA-1289, which must be marked on your cache containers. Note that annual CO Maintenance logs are mandatory with the owner signing the physical log book at least once per year. www.geocachealaska.org/documents/2013ASP-Permit-CSP-KRSMA-KBSP-PWS.pdfPost your questions... Actually, the cache is to be marked as follows: ALASKA STATE PARKS #13-KA-1289 GEOCACHE AK. State Parks is trying to make sure our caches are marked in a simple manner to immediately identify the special permit holder (here, GeocacheAlaska! Inc), as well as have the permit number for reference. They've shortened our name to GEOCACHE AK. What they're calling "simple" actually requires more copy on the container than just a permit number. I'm working to secure decals for purchase from our GeocacheAlaska! Inc. Store in two sizes which will have the correct permit language printed on them in 'permanent ink', as the permit requires (see layouts at bottom of post).
Park rangers are being instructed to look at any cache containers they find to ensure: 1) outside says ALASKA STATE PARKS #13-KA-1289 GEOCACHE AK; 2) inside, the front or cover of the WATERPROOF LOG says ALASKA STATE PARKS #13-KA-1289 GEOCACHE AK3) at least once a year, an inspection by the owner must be noted with a log entry at the cache site. (Stipulation #16 of our special use permit, which can be viewed at the link above) In discussion with the staffer at Alaska State Parks, they will accept an inspection by a cache finder, IF the log entry in the cache container specifically states the hide has been inspected for the purpose of its annual visit. This allows a person to inspect the cache as an agent for the cache hider, but they must be aware of the permit requirements in order to accomplish this in good faith. It in no way exempts the cache owner from their responsibility to make sure the cache hide is conforming with the all requirements of the permit. Best plan is to perform a maintenance visit on your caches on an annual basis, as suggested by Groundspeak. As Ladybug Kids (LBK) has noted, so far as permits for geocaching go, this is a fairly benign and cooperative set of conditions. And as LBK has also noted, earthcaches are specifically allowed in all areas approved under terms of this permit (Chugach State Park, Kenai area parks, and Prince Wm Sound area parks). Please don't hesitate to post any other questions regarding this permit onto this thread. Here's the decals we're hoping to have in the store, available for member purchase Suggested 1" x 3/8" Small cache container decal Suggested 5" x 3" large decal
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Post by NorthWes on Mar 29, 2013 11:18:26 GMT -9
Are all existing caches grandfathered, or do all State Parks caches now have to have a documented annual cache owner visit? That can be tricky for some caches given they are accessible for only a few weeks out of the year and if weather and cacher schedule don't align to allow a visit, they will fall out of compliance. This new requirement will certainly curtail the number and location of new caches I place in Chugach State Park just due to time and logistics to visit them in subsequent years. Prior cache placements marked with correct permit numbers for the year of their placement do not require an annual visit, but they must conform to all the other special stipulations of the permit, such as not creating habitat damage.
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Post by NorthWes on Mar 29, 2013 11:41:15 GMT -9
Lots of things to consider moving forward.... Note that the permit is only good through the end of the calendar year ie expires on 12/31/2013 Annual visits....hmmmmm.... In discussion with Alaska State Parks' statewide permit office, they've asked us to submit our 2014 permit request before Thanksgiving of 2013. This ensures the permit gets staff attention in time to be renewed well before January 1st 2014. Our Advocacy Committee will be working towards a submittal "deadline" of November 22nd. December is a month which sees heavy leave time expenditures in Alaska State Parks staff, as it's the time of lowest demand on park staff and headquarters staff during the year. Thus we need to give them as much time as possible to meet our January 1st goal for receipt of the 2014 permit. Groundspeak's Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines states in section II (Listing Guidelines) part 1.2 (Geocache Maintenance) the following regarding expected cache maintenance by cache owners: Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log. Temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have addressed the problem. You are permitted a reasonable amount of time – generally up to 4 weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.
I know from personal experience that it's sometimes difficult to access and maintain a cache (even when it's just down the street from your own home) because of the time of year, work schedule, or weather conditions. However, the land managers at Alaska State Parks aren't out of line asking us to visit our caches annually, given that it's an expectation by Groundspeak as well.
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