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Post by SSO JOAT on Oct 9, 2013 18:20:33 GMT -9
Time to start talking and planning. Dates? Routes? Places to clean? Places to camp?
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Post by SSO JOAT on Oct 10, 2013 6:50:35 GMT -9
To get a potentially bigger turnout, I suggest we target the weekend after Memorial Day (May 31 - June 1) as Memorial Day weekend is early this year and after talking to several of our Hobos last weekend, doing this outting on Memorial Day weekend isn't going to fly. The weekend prior is likely to still have snow, closed campground gates, and fewer people willing to brave the cooler night temperatures.
We do not have to couple this series to the Girdwood Highway cleanup, though that is still an option. Our Saturday morning turnout for that event last week was about half of normal. It might be possible to put Girdwood in the middle of the route, as we don't have to start or end there and backtracking the route is OK.
Seward is still on the table for a start or end point and we can certainly loop back to Homer again. A potential route could start in Seward, go to Girdwood, return to Cooper Landing with camping in the middle region. There are lots of camping options between Girdwood and Cooper Landing to consider as well, though dealing with the USFS has been less than stellar in regard to setting things like this up.
If we decouple from Girdwood, the route can simply turn left on the Sterling Highway and hit Cooper Landing sites instead. Wide open to thoughts on this either way. Historically, we've done the first Adopt-A-Highway cleanup of the year in the first half of May, the 2nd one in mid-July and the last one in late September. Thus, running Spring Hobo on June 1 is going to be very late for the Girdwood site.
The 2nd day could carry us south to Soldotna, Kenai, Ninilchik, Anchor Point, and finally on to Homer. We were very successful with the leap-frog experiment through Turnagain Pass last weekend, so it is possible to try something similar down the left flank of the Kenai as long as there is better definition of the individual mini-CITO sites along the way.
Friday night campground social event as pre-cursor to first event site Saturday morning breakfast social event at campsite Saturday morning CITO at/near the campout site Hobos traveling at mid-day Saturday afternoon CITO site, somewhere along the way Saturday evening campground social at second camping site Sunday morning breakfast social at campsite Sunday morning CITO at/near 2nd campout site Sunday afternoon CITO site, somewhere new
That's a quick 8 events with 4 socials and 4 CITOs, though it is possible to break Saturday into 3 separate CITO events to give us a total of 5 CITOs. Heck, if the terrain was rich enough, a final social event could be formalized to bring it up to 5 + 5 = 10 events.
Thoughts on my thoughts? Suggestions? Other ideas?
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Post by ladybugkids on Oct 10, 2013 9:26:42 GMT -9
I think decoupling from the Girdwood CITO is fine. The snow is gone by April out there and an earlier event would pick up seven months of winter carnage along that two mile stretch.
I'd be game for mixing things up a bit and including Seward. There are plenty of pull-outs to clean up...I filled another garbage bag between Tern Lake and Turnagain Pass just cleaning up as I found a few more caches, which, frankly, surprised me because for the number of finds a lot of those caches have, the associated pull-outs should be spotless if the majority of cachers are practicing CITO.
I'm all for an earlier date ahead of the peak tourist season that traditionally is bracketed by Memorial and Labor Day weekend. The cooler overnight temperatures aren't an issue for me and we can beat the bugs, too.
If Homer is included, I'd prefer a three-day weekend (almost definitely NOT Memorial Day weekend when so many other people are on the road) because I'd like more time to sightsee and perhaps slip in a hike or two in addition to dashing there and back with a few events thrown in. It's not a big deal for me to take a Friday or Monday off to create a three-day weekend, but others may not be in that position. On the other hand, nothing says one has to attend all the events, either.
It'd be interesting to hear if the Interior cachers have an interest in the Hobo CITO concept and want to coordinate one between Talkeetna and Fairbanks for instance. If they wanted to host a Fall series, a Denali Highway traverse would be great because based on my observations during my Autumn color driveabout, the hunters leave a lot of detritus out there and there are dozens and dozens of sites to clean up.
I also think it'd be fine if the Peninsula cachers want to make the Hobo CITO "theirs," and keep it on the Peninsula. Each time I go down there, I get reminded that it's about the same distance to Cooper Landing as Hatcher Pass and that I could spend more time in the area between Turnagain Pass and Cooper Landing.
I don't think we need/should go overboard with event creation. For example, I don't think we need a dinner social event and a breakfast social event when pretty much the same crowd is going to be at both.
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Post by NeverSummer on Oct 17, 2013 15:13:35 GMT -9
I'm with LBK about the multiple events. I think we can keep it "clean" by just focusing on the CITOs, and perhaps having a launch event the evening prior, or for breakfast on the first morning.
The main reason I (we) shot for having more events throughout was to attract folks who might not be able to make it to the Friday evening events. That way, there was a fun way to fold more people into the HOBO weekend to make it a bit more welcoming (and get another smiley!)
I'm partial to having a Friday evening event as a gathering point for the morning's CITO. I think that as these events keep getting more attention, there will be more people willing to get in the car after work and make the trip out.
So, here is what I'm thinking: -Friday "Welcome" campfire event (For the die hards who obviously are awesome, drive from work, and like a good party) -Saturday morning breakfast event (for those who want to wake up early, drive early, and start early) -Saturday CITO event(s) -Saturday evening can be left open for caching, or just hanging out. If someone who is attending wants to organize something more formal, they certainly can. -Sunday morning breakfast event (for those who could not join for Friday or Saturday) -Sunday CITO event at the campground
I think that leaving Sunday open for travel home, and perhaps some organized cache machines would be better than trying to cram in more CITO events on the last day before most are heading back to work. If this is going to be a 2-day weekend set of events, I know that I don't want to feel badly about wanting to get going home after the morning breakfast and campground CITO. (shy)
As an aside, I'm wondering about the Kenai Campout I was going to work on. I'm all for ditching that idea, in favor of our spring HOBO event being an outposted set of CITOs, versus a traveling CITO like the other HOBOs. Meaning, perhaps the spring HOBO events are set at one campground, ala this fall's set, but with the CITO location(s) being within striking distance of the campground chosen. We could go back to the traveling version for fall HOBO events, and they could be held anywhere. (Thinking about Mike's mention of fall color tours...)
For ownership sake, we could have the Spring HOBO on the peninsula each time, the Kenai BBQ in the summer, and a traveling circus of HOBO fun anywhere on the road system that wants to host. Anchorage to Cooper Landing; Seward to Anchorage, Anchorage to Fairbanks, Cooper Landing to Homer...wherever we decide each year.
And, to make this more of a run-on...what I remember being done back at events like this when I started caching was a special, golden travel bug being handed off via a drawing for the next person to "host" the event. The special TB came with privilages, and responsiblities. It was pretty cool, and a fun way to see who gets to set up the fun for next time.
Thoughts? (poke)
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Post by NeverSummer on Oct 28, 2013 15:56:03 GMT -9
Another renewed thought after the Q&A EduVent: If we're thinking Alaska can get a Mega Event someday, we might want to consider where and when we might want to create an annual event which can attract folks from all over the state and beyond.
Maybe this spring's CITO could be a non-moving campsite, and instead move the CITOs around from the outpost. Then we can focus on relationship building with some singular land manager sites such as Soldotna, Kenai Refuge, State Parks, etc. Then we can keep building up the events time after time. One big post-breakup Hobo CITO party, and then we can have satellite events anywhere else folks want to sponsor a similar event.
I dunno...but I do know that I'm in for whatever we do!
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Post by akgh519 on Oct 28, 2013 16:17:42 GMT -9
My experience with Megas has been at big venues ie something like the fairgrounds in Palmer. Most people coming from out of state and country will not have camping equipment. They would likely be staying in both motor homes and hotels.
Agree that starting with a local event is a good idea.
If a Mega is to be done GAK will have to have a significant increase in participation of organizing and putting on events...if we can not find someone to lead geofest ie an event that has a procedure all ready written how could we even think about putting on a Mega?!?
I have learned a lot by attending Megas this summer and also helping out at several of them also. Will be glad to share with those interested in visiting about it.
Would suggest if you are serious about doing one that you find one that interest you and volunteer to help at it the next time it is had. You will learn a lot.
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Post by NeverSummer on Oct 28, 2013 16:25:19 GMT -9
One of the big things for me is that I can't really coordinate Geofest from Homer. Now, a giant campout on the Kenai Peninsula I can do.
One of the things I'm thinking about is how the Kenai attracts folks from all over for their vacations...especially fishing in the summer. Another option would be to try something closer to Anchorage where people can camp an RV. That, or we look up toward Denali.
Anyway, that's hijacking the thread.
I wonder if we want to have the spring Hobo CITO events outposted from one site.
I've been working on a thread for a summer Kenai campout event of its own...and perhaps we can link in a campout to JOAT's BBQ if he thinks it would be ok...?
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Post by akgh519 on Oct 28, 2013 16:56:23 GMT -9
Yes we can discuss megas elsewhere. Much to talk about there. Have many thoughts on it. Perhaps next time I am in homer we can visit about them.
The idea of the annual picnic in Kenai with a camp out is great. I don't spend enough time down there to know of a venue.
I have not been to the Kenai picnic. Family obligations kept me from it this year and fishing in Seward others. I plan to be there in 2014.
I don't recall if the picnic was on Saturday or Sunday this year but do know it was on Sundays in past years. Making the drive back to Anchorage on probably the busiest traffic weekend on Sunday from Sonai then going to work the next morning has not been appealing to me. Maybe move it to a Saturday picnic event...camp out Saturday evening and maybe a quick breakfast thing on Sunday would be more appealing to those who have to work in Anchorage or points further on Monday?
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Post by NeverSummer on Oct 29, 2013 9:42:30 GMT -9
To be fair to the guidelines, the attendance for a Mega needs to be 500 documented attendees, not necessarily geocacher usernames. If we can get every man, woman and child to sign the logbook at, say the Kenai Picnic this year, and we can see if it is possible to get the logbook to show 500 signatures. From there, the Mega is retroactively applied, and the next year's event gets Mega Status straight away.
So...Perhaps the Hobo events could get to that point, or an annual campout series, or the Kenai Picnic. We just need to encourage folks to bring their friends and family to the events and sign in!
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Post by akgh519 on Oct 29, 2013 11:26:57 GMT -9
Yes that is all correct. At the one Megs I attended they multiply the attended times two for there estimate of total folks attending. They stated this is a conservative estimate. At the going caching mega in Georgia, I was in the 740's when I signed the log right before it wrapped up. At the time of writing this they had 491 attended logs.
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Post by ladybugkids on Oct 29, 2013 11:39:52 GMT -9
As of October 21, Mega Events are being managed by Groundspeak according to this Help Center post. Mega Event status upgrade is requested by completing this form.Effective in 2014, events will not be "upgraded" to Mega status after the event has already taken place.
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Post by NeverSummer on Oct 29, 2013 13:15:52 GMT -9
As of October 21, Mega Events are being managed by Groundspeak according to this Help Center post. Mega Event status upgrade is requested by completing this form.Effective in 2014, events will not be "upgraded" to Mega status after the event has already taken place. Those are the same guidelines I got my info from. I had no idea, however, that there would no longer be an "upgrade" possible. Where is that discussed? Is it on the Groundspeak forums somewhere? It seems like the process has been this way for some time. Any idea why there will be a change? The only mega I attended was converted. I was, in fact, the #500 signature on the logbook, allowing it to be upgraded. So, that's the only perspective I have on Mega Events. Strange that the system which seems to work (and is rather logical in how to attain "Mega" status) would be changed...
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Post by ladybugkids on Oct 29, 2013 13:41:42 GMT -9
I had no idea, however, that there would no longer be an "upgrade" possible. Where is that discussed? Last sentence, paragraph 3 under General Guidelines for Mega Events in the linked to Help Center article. With the increase in Mega Events, the Groundspeak marketing department wants to be working with the Event organizers as far in advance as possible to support the events. This is also explained in the referenced paragraph 3. As was my first attended Mega Event in Temecula after the first Geocoinfest. However, as geocaching grows and Groundspeak works to support the increasing number of Mega Events, they felt there was a need to change. Groundspeak has seen several instances of event organizers using mega designation in advance in order to promote their event and hopefully break the 500 attendee threshold. They would much rather see event organizers build up to mega status and take the opportunity to grow with the event and work out the kinks and fine details with their planning before they reach mega so attendees have the best experience.
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Post by NeverSummer on Oct 29, 2013 14:18:06 GMT -9
I think I've identified where we might be miscommunicating. I'm referencing the graduation of an event to "Mega" status after the 500+ threshold has been crossed. So that no longer happens? I totally read the guidelines wrong and missed that last sentence. But, how else can an event become a Mega? Seems odd to me that you can estimate attendance to get Mega status (and possibly not make it), versus have an event break #500 and get post-upgraded and the following year be granted Mega status from the near get-go. For those who attended the King Boreas Crowning event it was quite the reward for that event to be post-upgraded; something unexpected for attendees to really take pride in and return to celebrate the next time. But, besed on the way they've worded it, an event which only gets 100 "attended" logs would be hard-pressed to "prove" that 500 or more people where there. But, if an event is put on which attracts non-geocachers and geocachers alike, I would hope that a logbook with over 500 signatures would make future "Mega" designation possible. Anyway, to work with the hand we're dealt here, how possible is it for an existing annual event to see 200-250 "attended" logs and/or 500 overall people? When I crunch numbers, it would mean that every GeocacheAlaska! member would need to attend every year, and that we would rely on a hefty number of tourists and planned vistors to see 200-300 "Attended" logs on an event. Coordinating everyone's geocaching travel to include what amounts to international travel from the lower 48 will be quite the feat to celebrate. If we were ever to put on an event where 500+ people sign the logbook, it would be a heckuva bummer to not see it retroactively upgraded to Mega. Just sayin'.
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Post by ladybugkids on Oct 29, 2013 15:20:02 GMT -9
But, how else can an event become a Mega? It is explained in the guidelines...establish a track record for an event it high attendance. As stated there, most eventual Mega Events do not achieve 500 attendees the first year of their existance. Which is one of the big reasons Groundspeak has changed their policy. Yup. And coordinate with a geo-cruise such as the one that brough seventy cachers to Anchorage in July 2013. Hosting a Mega Event in Alaska is a stretch until the community grows a bit larger. There have been a handful of events that have it one hundred or a few more cachers, but nothing that has even approached 200. Grounspeak has laid out their policy. It's up to Event organizers to make things happen.
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Post by NeverSummer on Oct 29, 2013 16:00:39 GMT -9
But, how else can an event become a Mega? It is explained in the guidelines...establish a track record for an event it high attendance. As stated there, most eventual Mega Events do not achieve 500 attendees the first year of their existance. Which is one of the big reasons Groundspeak has changed their policy. Yup. And coordinate with a geo-cruise such as the one that brough seventy cachers to Anchorage in July 2013. Hosting a Mega Event in Alaska is a stretch until the community grows a bit larger. There have been a handful of events that have it one hundred or a few more cachers, but nothing that has even approached 200. Grounspeak has laid out their policy. It's up to Event organizers to make things happen. No, believe me, I get it. I'm ok with it. I didn't know the guidelines changed, and missed the one sentence which stated the "no retro-mega" part clearly. I was just under the impression that if an event coordinator "makes it (500+ attendees) happen", their reward should be a Mega to their credit, period. I just wasn't aware that was going to go away. For those who want to see a Mega happen, I hope this thread can help understand the uphill efforts required to get even remotely close! (shy)
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Post by TheFirefly on Nov 14, 2013 22:22:13 GMT -9
Okay, back to business. (poke) Random thoughts on Spring HOBO CITO 2014 based on skimming previous posts: - Definitely not Memorial Day weekend - Less official posted "social" events would be fine. Maybe a kick-off and either a campfire or a breakfast? - Multiple official CITO events throughout the weekend would be good - I like the moving from site to site. I've gotten to see some campgrounds that were new to me! - I'm okay with separating from the Girdwood Adopt-A-Highway - I have no problem with the HOBO CITO concept being adopted by other areas of the state, but I'd prefer to see at least one HOBO CITO weekend kept on the peninsula each year - The idea of the special golden TB handed off to the next host is neat, but I'm not sure would work for something like this where there are multiple hosts for the weekend. (NS - Maybe we can take that idea and run with it for a dedicated something in Homer! You and I can trade off each time. )
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Post by SSO JOAT on Nov 15, 2013 20:36:35 GMT -9
Agree that we don't want to do Memorial Day weekend itself, but a weekend on one side or the other. My desire is to try out the weekend after Memorial Day (May 30 - June 1). While there is a lot of camping and crowds on Memorial Day weekend, the holiday is very early in 2014 and I think it would be a weather mistake to try and do it that early in the season. The weekend after is still earlier than tourists start showing up and we'll have a much better chance of finding snow-free ground and good weather.
Girdwood will do the first highway CITO as a stand-alone event earlier in May. So this Hobo CITO series will not have to be anchored to that site at either end. We are free to roam the entire Kenai. I think we should consider either a Seward to Homer or Homer to Seward route. If we can get Team WOCM and/or other Seward cachers involved from that end, we can probably get some sites pinned down in that area.
I know we have several different concepts brewing in different threads, but afer pondering possibilities for long-term sustainability, I'm thinking that Hobo CITO should be our Spring thing, with the Kenai River Picnic at mid-Summer, and then this newly developing talk about a single-point camping weekend for the Fall is the way to wrap up the fair-weather caching season. Three big events to bracket in the Kenai Peninsula with room for various little things in between.
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Post by TheFirefly on Nov 15, 2013 21:47:48 GMT -9
Agree that we don't want to do Memorial Day weekend itself, but a weekend on one side or the other. My desire is to try out the weekend after Memorial Day (May 30 - June 1). While there is a lot of camping and crowds on Memorial Day weekend, the holiday is very early in 2014 and I think it would be a weather mistake to try and do it that early in the season. The weekend after is still earlier than tourists start showing up and we'll have a much better chance of finding snow-free ground and good weather. Selfishly, I'll support the preference for the weekend after Memorial Day. I'll be outside the end of April and most likely most of May, racing back to make it to a conference in Haines over Memorial Day. The weekend after means I can hopefully drag my travel tired self to the event and just right in to AK geocaching for summer 2014! I know we have several different concepts brewing in different threads, but afer pondering possibilities for long-term sustainability, I'm thinking that Hobo CITO should be our Spring thing, with the Kenai River Picnic at mid-Summer, and then this newly developing talk about a single-point camping weekend for the Fall is the way to wrap up the fair-weather caching season. Three big events to bracket in the Kenai Peninsula with room for various little things in between. I second that!
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Post by fuzzybelly on Nov 16, 2013 8:43:39 GMT -9
sounds like a good layout to me too
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Post by NeverSummer on Nov 27, 2013 12:20:35 GMT -9
Third. Aaaaaaand, I think we have a quorum. Motion passed! LOL I really like the post-memorial day idea. I'll have less obligations with the Shorebird Festival in Homer (stay tuned for an event for that weekend--the first weekend in May), but will have some pre-research season pressures at work. I'll welcome the break and camping opportunity. Then with the Picnic in the middle of the summer, I can help out (if I'm not in the field), and it can continue to be a standalone staple of the summer events in AK. I think the tie-ins with local businesses and chambers of commerce will net some good support and spread the word well. After all of that, we can shoot for a weekend campout on the Peninsula. By the time we have it, we can shoot for later August or even the first weekend of September. Usually pretty good weather, sunshine, and less tourists. A post-tourist season CITO will be welcomed by many agencies, too, so we might be able to get a block of campsites for free. Let the reservations begin!! I like. Great work, everybody!
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Post by SSO JOAT on Mar 27, 2014 16:37:38 GMT -9
Is there anyone who wants to take over planning and developing the Spring Hobo CITO weekend? Please chime in as we are now at the point where full blown planning should be underway. If a Spring session isn't put in play, we can look at a Fall run instead.
I've got an issue that has suddenly popped up on the homefront that is going to make it unlikely that I'll be able to participate during weekend after Memorial day that was being discussed.
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Post by NeverSummer on Mar 28, 2014 13:04:32 GMT -9
Is there anyone who wants to take over planning and developing the Spring Hobo CITO weekend? Please chime in as we are now at the point where full blown planning should be underway. If a Spring session isn't put in play, we can look at a Fall run instead. I've got an issue that has suddenly popped up on the homefront that is going to make it unlikely that I'll be able to participate during weekend after Memorial day that was being discussed. If we can get some recruitment going from the Events committee, we might be able to see if any other areas have a vision or idea for having a Hobo CITO in their neck of the woods. It can even be a simple trip from Anchorage to Hatcher's Pass or something. Or Fairbanks? It doesn't have to be on the Kenai Peninsula...
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Post by NeverSummer on Mar 28, 2014 13:06:58 GMT -9
My time will be pretty limited for planning after the last week of April. I'll be out in the Pribs for July, and then crazy with catch-up at the office for August until our field season is over in September.
I'm happy to rally support, but hosting it is not going to be easy for me. So, we can all work together to get a plan, but we'll need support from "hosts" for each leg I think. That worked out well for the first version
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Post by barnacle9 on Jun 6, 2014 16:59:41 GMT -9
Just wondering whether anyone has thought about the Fall series yet - now that I am stuck on the boat for the summer, I am looking forward to an escape :-)
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Post by SSO JOAT on Jun 6, 2014 18:15:49 GMT -9
No one stepped up to take on the Spring run, which is very unfortunate. My work schedule has been in a state of chaos and I still don't know exactly what my August is going to look like as I have a mandatory certification class coming up, but the schedule hasn't been made yet. I will be working from August 26 to September 8 regardless of anything else. I'll be working with SERVS on the Cordova run this fall, which is from September 18-27 and then going right back to my regular shift through October 6.
It's questionable as to what free time I'll have from August 12-25. My moose hunting plans for the 2nd week of September just burned to the ground a couple weeks ago. Not sure if I'll have the time to scout out a new hunting area for this year. With that, it's entirely possible that the weekend of September 13-14 could be made to work. Beyond that, I've lost every weekend through mid-October.
So, what's your schedule looking like?
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Post by barnacle9 on Jun 6, 2014 19:06:04 GMT -9
Weekend of September 13-14 might just be possible, but I would be scrambling to make it - it all depends on when we quit buying Silvers on the Flats - usually it is right around that time frame. August is impossible for me. October works for me just fine, as I have put the boat away for the winter and am officially on vacation by that point. Anyways, I sure enjoyed the last one, and hope to participate again - I know it is a lot of work for you to make all the arrangements - let me know if I can help.
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Post by SSO JOAT on Jun 6, 2014 22:29:50 GMT -9
I have the weekend of October 17-19 that should be availabe (it's quite a bit out there and things have a habit of changing rapidly at my day job, so it's too early to call it a go, yet). It's going to be gettin' fairly cold by that time and we would probably be looking at a lot of locked gates at many of the park sites. But, there's no such thing as bad weather, just bad gear. Cold doesn't bother me and I rather enjoy winter camping, but it would be a barrier to many folks and probably reduce our turnout.
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Post by barnacle9 on Jun 7, 2014 7:49:16 GMT -9
Yeah - probably the September dates would be best for most people - I just wouldn't be able to say with any real certainty that I could make it, at least not at this point in time. It's worth looking at again down the road a little - certainly is a fun thing to do.
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Post by barnacle9 on Jul 9, 2014 11:37:23 GMT -9
If the Fraser River Sockeye run down South hits big like they are predicting, our Silvers won't be worth a whole lot. In that event, time off in mid-September quite possibly becomes a reality in my world. Too early to know what's going to happen though.
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