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Post by ladybugkids on Nov 13, 2013 14:12:58 GMT -9
I'm ignorant when it comes to Facebook and Twitter. Why would photos like this be posted on a social media site where not everyone can see them rather than with a cache log on the Geocaching.com Event page where the typical geocacher interested in seeing photos of an event would go look? At least...that's where I would look first. Or, are people double-posting, as I see rocketry photos on the Homer Event page?
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Post by akgh519 on Nov 13, 2013 15:58:38 GMT -9
It is a lot easier to post photos on places other than geocaching.com If they really want a lot of photos they need to find better ways to download them to their website.
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Post by ladybugkids on Nov 13, 2013 16:13:19 GMT -9
On geocaching.com, one clicks "Upload Photo," browses to the location where the photo is resident, enters an optional title for the image and if desired, coordinates, and then clicks "upload." What does Facebook do that makes the process easier?
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Post by NeverSummer on Nov 13, 2013 16:52:51 GMT -9
I'm ignorant when it comes to Facebook and Twitter. Why would photos like this be posted on a social media site where not everyone can see them rather than with a cache log on the Geocaching.com Event page where the typical geocacher interested in seeing photos of an event would go look? At least...that's where I would look first. Or, are people double-posting, as I see rocketry photos on the Homer Event page? I did upload a handful of photos to the event listing. The only problem with that is when the event is archived, the listing isn't searchable anymore. (And my event is archived...) So, you'd have to go through my account to find the event listing and/or the photos in my gallery. I have double-posted. (And may triple-post if I become an admin on the Facebook "page" as well as the "group") Unfortunately, with more and more users being facebook and twitter users, it is a method of outreach that is effective...so long as that is a way you take in some of your digital information. The other way would be if we wanted to shoot out a MailChimp event summary from the "Geocaching in Space" celebrations as a teaser for coming newsletters. Active use of social media and direct mail can be good, and can be bad. Unfortunately, the more digital information we take in, the better, more relevant, and important these forms of communication become. It means that, if you don't subscribe to facebook or twitter, or don't like your email inbox getting direct-mailed communication from GeAK, you're going to miss out on things like photos, announcements, etc. Meaning, there are going to be people who are members of GeAK who don't and won't do facebook and/or twitter. (I don't twit, personally, but I do book my face) Others aren't going to want to see more emails. But, as marketing and outreach programs have shown, regular communication is key to an involved and informed membership base. For example, Scott found that, despite 3+ different points of contact about the BoD elections, some people didn't know about them until they saw the reminder on facebook. Others had the email go to their spam folder. So, this shows that a multi-pronged approach can be very helpful. Does that mean you need to sign up for facebook or twitter? Nope. But it would them mean we might need to reach those who don't and won't via a method that works for them: emails. All of this to say, I'd be happy to work on regular weekly emails (Mailchimp, if you like ) I'd also like to try to get a link to the photos of the event posted on the forums via a link. I'll see what I can do about that. (ouch)
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Post by NeverSummer on Nov 13, 2013 16:55:03 GMT -9
On geocaching.com, one clicks "Upload Photo," browses to the location where the photo is resident, enters an optional title for the image and if desired, coordinates, and then clicks "upload." What does Facebook do that makes the process easier? Facebook's photo upload process is very simple. You click on "upload image(s)" and select the image(s) you want to upload. You click on "ok", and it posts them directly to the group's page, or the "wall" or "newsfeed" of other users. It's a bit more like a snapfish or flickr photo website in that sense...
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Post by NeverSummer on Nov 13, 2013 17:03:21 GMT -9
Bummer. Can't link externally to the photo album. If it were posted on my personal page, it could be. But since it is on a "private" group's page on facebook, it can't be shared externally.
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Post by ladybugkids on Nov 13, 2013 17:18:05 GMT -9
On geocaching.com, one clicks "Upload Photo," browses to the location where the photo is resident, enters an optional title for the image and if desired, coordinates, and then clicks "upload." What does Facebook do that makes the process easier? Facebook's photo upload process is very simple. You click on "upload image(s)" and select the image(s) you want to upload. You click on "ok", and it posts them directly to the group's page, or the "wall" or "newsfeed" of other users. It's a bit more like a snapfish or flickr photo website in that sense... So, is the main difference that one can upload more than one photo at a time? Can one tag each photo individually, or do the photos just be come part of the collage of seemingly random stream of consciousness I've seen the few times I've followed a Facebook link?
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Post by ladybugkids on Nov 13, 2013 17:29:34 GMT -9
Unfortunately, with more and more users being facebook and twitter users, it is a method of outreach that is effective... We may want to test this hypothesis again. Surprisingly few Alaskan cachers said they use Facebook in last year's member survey. This is simply a personal e-mail management issue. I check my spam and junk folders almost daily and typically find one to three pieces of mail that shouldn't have gone there and drag them into the correct folder. However, now that we know people don't check those folders, we need to find a means to encourage them to do so when critical information goes out, find another means of communicating, or accept the fact that some people aren't going to be proactive about staying informed. I agree and stated it publically at the last Eduvent when I conducted the informal poll of the attendees, posted the results in these forums and published them in the newsletter. Within my work environment, Corporate Communications has said they aim to communicate critical information six different ways: e-mail, pretty fliers dropped on desks, the internal internet site, direct mail to home address, Facebook, Twitter, and communications/emplyee meetings are the menu they choose from, depending on how publically they want to shout out something. GeocacheAlaska! can target similar outreach: newsletter, e-mail, forums, facebook, twitter, MailChimp. When the new Board is seated, one of the things that we can do is decide amongst ourselves and non-Board members who have expressed interest how to divide and conquer the different communication media. One person doing everything is going to be a bit much unless that is the only thing they do.
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Post by fuzzybelly on Nov 13, 2013 17:32:05 GMT -9
Wont be joining any face thingy. I've got a bad vibe about that thing, I'm a conspiracy theorist ya know Just like that twinkies conspiracy a while ago And I'm a twit but I wont be twittering, any time soon.
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Post by NeverSummer on Nov 13, 2013 18:14:23 GMT -9
Facebook's photo upload process is very simple. You click on "upload image(s)" and select the image(s) you want to upload. You click on "ok", and it posts them directly to the group's page, or the "wall" or "newsfeed" of other users. It's a bit more like a snapfish or flickr photo website in that sense... So, is the main difference that one can upload more than one photo at a time? Can one tag each photo individually, or do the photos just be come part of the collage of seemingly random stream of consciousness I've seen the few times I've followed a Facebook link? Hmm. Not quite sure what you mean. The photos, as they are now on the Group page, can be placed in "albums". So, right now there is an album for the GiS event, and then a "stream" of the other photos that have been posted to the "wall" of the "Group". So, as long as people create albums for the photos they upload, they can be viewed as such. Whenever someone posts a photo to the wall at random, it only appears in the date-ordinal "stream" of photos displayed below the albums in the photo page view. Clear as mud? Might need to ask your kiddos to show you
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Post by NeverSummer on Nov 13, 2013 18:16:06 GMT -9
Wont be joining any face thingy. I've got a bad vibe about that thing, I'm a conspiracy theorist ya know Just like that twinkies conspiracy a while ago And I'm a twit but I wont be twittering, any time soon. So GeAK forums and direct emails it is for the fuzz! (poke)
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Post by fuzzybelly on Nov 13, 2013 18:25:58 GMT -9
That's right, thanks for scratch'n my ear Summer
I can look at photos placed on Giant Dons facethingy without being a member of said facethingy, maybe only if posted by the facethings webmaster?
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Post by ladybugkids on Nov 13, 2013 19:07:33 GMT -9
So, is the main difference that one can upload more than one photo at a time? Can one tag each photo individually, or do the photos just be come part of the collage of seemingly random stream of consciousness I've seen the few times I've followed a Facebook link? Hmm. Not quite sure what you mean. <snip> Clear as mud? Might need to ask your kiddos to show you Actually, I understand what you said. In MyFace, FaceSpace, whatever, photos can be organized or they can be tossed in the daily stream to swim away never to be seen again.
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Post by ladybugkids on Nov 13, 2013 19:16:11 GMT -9
Wont be joining any face thingy. I've got a bad vibe about that thing, I'm a conspiracy theorist ya know It's more than a theory, Scott. I was stalked through someone else's account and received nasty e-mails about where I was and with whom because we didn't include the "excluded" party, even though we happened to be in the same place by coincidence. If that can happen to someone who doesn't even have an account, I can only imagine the possibilities for bullying, stalking, and being subjected to other undesirable behavior if one has an account and routinely posts to it. I'm not interested in opening myself up to those kinds of shenanigans.
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Post by NeverSummer on Nov 14, 2013 8:49:36 GMT -9
Hmm. Not quite sure what you mean. <snip> Clear as mud? Might need to ask your kiddos to show you Actually, I understand what you said. In MyFace, FaceSpace, whatever, photos can be organized or they can be tossed in the daily stream to swim away never to be seen again. Well, they can be seen again, but you have to know where to look. "Pages" and "Groups" (as well as personal pages) have links to all photos posted to their "wall". The "wall" can be like a stream, and you would have to scroll forever to find the photo you wanted on the wall from months ago. However, you can still find all photos in one place at the "photos" link on any facebook page. From there, they are organized with albums (if someone used them to post photos), or the general "photo montage" below it of all of the photos uploaded to the wall over time. It is, thankfully, rather intuitive now. It didn't used to be!
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Post by akgh519 on Nov 14, 2013 15:39:19 GMT -9
One thing I do like about our Facebook group page is that I am notified when someone post something new. The forums don't do that
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 12:59:09 GMT -9
Any thoughts about setting up and Instagram account for geocache Alaska. There are already hashtags with geocache Alaska, geocache HQ has an account with Instagram all ready and there photos and being shared around the world. It might just be a way to keep people involved and seeing some of out fun events, there are ways to tag the event gc for where the photos were taken.
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Post by NeverSummer on Nov 19, 2013 15:11:21 GMT -9
Any thoughts about setting up and Instagram account for geocache Alaska. There are already hashtags with geocache Alaska, geocache HQ has an account with Instagram all ready and there photos and being shared around the world. It might just be a way to keep people involved and seeing some of out fun events, there are ways to tag the event gc for where the photos were taken. I've thought about that idea as well. I like it, and it's a cool way to post photos for many folks to see. Learning hashtags is important, and people with their own Instagram should know how to tag the user "GeocacheAlaska" (or whatever the account name is) There would need to be an email account associated with it, and someone would need to glean photos tagged or sent to them to add to the Instagram feed for the account. Meaning, the user account for GeocacheAlaska's official instagram would need to post photos. Other users can tag photos or use hashtags relating to GeocacheAlaska's official instagram account. To populate the photostream, whoever administrates the official GeocacheAlaska Instagram would need to post photos often enough, and also be able to repost photos tagged or sent to them to be used on the feed. The USFWS uses that process, and so do other retailers that I follow. Somehow people would need to submit photos to the account holder, and they would need to get them uploaded to the feed. Otherwise, it is just a vacant account that can be tagged by others, but wouldn't have any photos of their own. Clear as mud?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 15:27:28 GMT -9
Any thoughts about setting up and Instagram account for geocache Alaska. There are already hashtags with geocache Alaska, geocache HQ has an account with Instagram all ready and there photos and being shared around the world. It might just be a way to keep people involved and seeing some of out fun events, there are ways to tag the event gc for where the photos were taken. I've thought about that idea as well. I like it, and it's a cool way to post photos for many folks to see. Learning hashtags is important, and people with their own Instagram should know how to tag the user "GeocacheAlaska" (or whatever the account name is) There would need to be an email account associated with it, and someone would need to glean photos tagged or sent to them to add to the Instagram feed for the account. Meaning, the user account for GeocacheAlaska's official instagram would need to post photos. Other users can tag photos or use hashtags relating to GeocacheAlaska's official instagram account. To populate the photostream, whoever administrates the official GeocacheAlaska Instagram would need to post photos often enough, and also be able to repost photos tagged or sent to them to be used on the feed. The USFWS uses that process, and so do other retailers that I follow. Somehow people would need to submit photos to the account holder, and they would need to get them uploaded to the feed. Otherwise, it is just a vacant account that can be tagged by others, but wouldn't have any photos of their own. Clear as mud? I agree 100% it would be good to have a Geocachealaska email address to have users email photos to and have the admin post them from there. And then open it up for other users of Instagram to tag back to us and to post using a set of hashtags that we could help promote.
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Post by SSO JOAT on Nov 20, 2013 5:15:49 GMT -9
I can make any geocachealaska.org email address that we need. Bring a plan together and we can put it on the table.
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Post by ladybugkids on Nov 27, 2013 17:38:19 GMT -9
Let's not spread ourselves too thin and make certain there is at least one person willing to keep up with cross-posting to all the social media that has been discussed. Based on conversations I have caught, there is desire to post in newsletter, website, forums, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, MailChimp, and probably one or two more I missed. It's great to get the word out, but we should be certain to focus on the media outlets we are willing to keep fresh ALL THE TIME so cachers get used to going there.
My recommendation is to pick two or three to really focus on. Otherwise, something(s) will get dropped, stale, etc., and become clutter out there.
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Post by NeverSummer on Nov 29, 2013 15:05:51 GMT -9
Well, with the 2 facebook pages we have already found some issues with the auto-post options of any mailchimp direct emails.
I need to talk to Wes about adding me in as an admin on that page. The problem still remains that the "Page" is where we can post organization-specific info, and the "Group" is more like a forum, in that anyone can post things and participate. "Pages" are more of a mouthpiece/speakerbox for info.
Mailchimp would be a way to post notification about the newsletter or other mailings, and have it cross-post to twitter and facebook. It removes the need for "normal" email messages and puts the messages in a good-looking format for email users, all while posting automatically to facebook and twitter whatever content is in the mailing via a link.
For example: Newsletter written and hosted on the website. Mailchimp has a digest version of mail articles, and links to the full version on the website. Mailchimp also automatically posts to facebook and twitter for followers of those outlets.
Or, reminder emails for a survey or contest go out via mailchimp. Crossposted automatically to FB and twitter. Hits email inboxes and other outlets to cover communication bases.
Instagram is the outlier, but just having an account created so people can tag and hashtag "GeocacheAlaska!" would be easy. People can post photos of their geocaching conquests to the instagram, and that will automatically post to their personal facebook if they want it to.
So, really, there isn't much that can get stale. Those who use one or all outlets will still use them. For example, the forums really only get traffic from a handful of users. The conversations are important and organized much better than on facebook. However, facebook is fresh and fun, and stays that way for those who post there. (Same goes for twitter)
Mailchimp is something anyone can use, or one person can be in charge of. It is straight forward and helps to populate news feeds on FB and Twitter while getting important and relevant info to their inboxes.
The Groundspeak sites are proof positive that many outlets are helpful. Many use the forums, but not all. Many use their facebook, but not all. Their newletters/blog post updates go out via weekly mailer (like our direct emails, or eventual MailChimp mailings). Moderators are around to keep things active and on track.
We've got a webmaster, but there are also people actively maintaining and other participating on the facebook group (the page has gotten stale, but that's because of posting processes and active moderation/administration). I'd be happy to talk with the BoD about working more on our social media outreach processes. I'm more than happy, willing, and able to send out Alaska-specific mailings via whatever outlet is chosen (standard email or MailChimp, if the latter is voted for). I'm already helping Scott with the facebook group, and trying to post things to keep it fresh and interesting. I just need to talk to Wes about possibly being added as an admin for the page as well.
From there, we're all keeping the forums active, and we can direct people to specific threads via posts on facebook, newsletter, or weekly mailer. (Say, like looking for help with the Hobo Cito planning or whatever) A post on the facebook page and group can be made, and then people follow the link to the forums to join in the conversation.
It's not too difficult; the process is just new and unfamiliar for some. I'm comfortable with it, and so long as I have the time I would love to help out in that way. I see it as a streamlining rather than as spreading ourselves too thin.
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Post by fuzzybelly on Nov 30, 2013 9:03:42 GMT -9
I really didn't understand any of that but it sounds like it makes since
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Post by ladybugkids on Dec 1, 2013 22:11:10 GMT -9
The Groundspeak sites are proof positive that many outlets are helpful. Many use the forums, but not all. Many use their facebook, but not all. Their newletters/blog post updates go out via weekly mailer (like our direct emails, or eventual MailChimp mailings). Moderators are around to keep things active and on track. We've got a webmaster, but there are also people actively maintaining and other participating on the facebook group (the page has gotten stale, but that's because of posting processes and active moderation/administration). Joel, I agree with you 100%. However, I'm coming from a place where getting newsletter content on time for publishing is like pulling teeth, where we've had a Facebook page/group/whatever for three or four years that never really has gotten traction, and forum participation has tanked. It's my opinion that before the Board begins running with a bunch of social media sites, a unified plan must be developed that includes which social media sites we are going to use, why each site is being used, and most importantly, who is going to be accountable for keeping each site current. Right now, I'm confused and confuddled. One can post photos with their cache logs on geocaching.com. But, one can also post photos on Facebook to a page and to an album (terminology most likely not exactly correct). Then, we can post photos using Twitter and most recently, Instagram. One can also post photos in these forums and the Webmaster can post them on the website. That's six locations photos can be posted to. What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? Do we really want/need photos posted six different places? Just because we can post photos in a bunch of different places doesn't mean we should. Same question goes for announcements and stories. Just because we can post a bunch of different ways doesn't mean we should, unless there is a specific reason we choose to and we have the staying power to keep each and every site updated so people keep coming back.
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Post by SSO JOAT on Dec 3, 2013 10:13:44 GMT -9
My personal take...
Facebook is here to stay. I have no access to the page. Wes has been unable to transfer it. I don't like the FB page feature as it basically only allows the "company" to post stuff and it requires FB users to consciously decide to go look at the page. No one does and thus stuff posted to our page doesn't appear to do much.
The Facebook Group allows all the members to be involved. So, GCAK can not only post current info, but all of our members can comment on it, share it, and post their own stuff as well. Everything posted on the Group page will automatically appear in the timeline page of each individual member. Thus it is put in front of their "face" without them doing anything more than their initial joining of our group. At the moment, our group is up to 75 members. Not bad, considering it has only been in existence for a couple months.
We get instant feedback on everything posted to our group. It shows how many members viewed each post, photo, or comment. People can "like" individual posts, photos, or comments and everyone else can see that. It was pretty cool to instantly upload photos during our Hobo CITO event and have feedback within minutes from members who were armchair following our adventure.
Our Twitter feed is linked into multiple park agencies. We have only a handful of club member followers. We get no feedback on tweets unless someone "re-tweets" it. Otherwise it is a blast into cyberspace and we don't know if anyone is even viewing the tweets. I view Twitter as a way to expose all of those parks agencies to what we are doing. However, our reach via Twitter is extremely limited and it takes upfront "relationship" work to get people to follow us via this media. IMHO, all Twitter posts should be directly related to events and activities that the club is involved with. It should never turn into a "sales" outlet (e.g. for pushing bling sales). Since we've opened the account, I've used it to live post from several events as well as link to our newsletters as they are published.
Beyond those two social media outlets, there are another dozen or so less popular sites. I have zero desire to get into any other sites beyond FB and Twitter. The readership of these two is low enough. The rest of them together will have almost no following within our little organization and simply compound the amount of work that "someone" has to do. My measure of a social media site... until the site is getting regular mentions on the Tonight Show and the evening News, it is not worth getting involved in as not enough people are using it.
These forums are the basis of internal discussion. They are primarily used by the BoD and committees. Very rarely used or read by the general membership, though they all have free access.
The website is to be used for more "permanent" stuff and not for making annoucements. Considerably more effort to change things on there.
The newsletter provides a good outlet for current news, though it's kinds like a newspaper. Yes, we printed it and yes the paperboy tossed a copy on everyone's door step. But how many of them actually open it and read all 13 pages? Even with all the calls for more newsletter content, I generally get the feeling that we are making it a little too thick for the quick and casual reading that the masses have time for. I also think we could benefit from having a highlights summary within the email message body telling people specifically what is in the newsletter. This may entice more folks to open the PDF attachment in the first place.
As to the photos... I don't have a problem with people posting their photos in every available outlet. There's plenty of space on the internet for the same photo to be hosted in multiple places if the owner so desires. I personally don't post very many photos to GC.com logs because it is just too cumbersome of a process to wade through. Then the photo isn't actually displayed in the log, just a link to go see it. And with event caches, they will soon be archived and the photos essentially become hidden in the back room. FB and Twitter have the easiest photo posting mechanisms available. When I take a picture with my camera, I can post to either of them with a single click from the camera application (plus a few optional clicks to add any comments or captioning I desire). And vice versa, from either the FB or Twitter app, I can click the little camera icon and take a photo for uploading on the spot. In the FB feed, photos are displayed in the post, so you can skim down the "wall" and see all the photos within the context of their originial poasts.
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Post by akgh519 on Dec 3, 2013 11:36:31 GMT -9
Agree with Scott on the FB group page ie being enjoyable, easy to use and notified of everything The forums are ok...I access on my iPhone. I find the 'site' to be difficult to navigate but admit it could be because I am not there often Our website still shows the same photos that it did when I first started looking at it 3+ years ago. This bothers me. I would have thought this would have been different. I understand an update to different software was being made but thought this would have been done by now. Is it complete? If not, Does this task need be reassigned or is this a place to spend some of the money we don't want to make on? ?
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Post by SSO JOAT on Dec 3, 2013 12:45:52 GMT -9
Glad you asked. I have no intention on removing old images from the website, though I can shuffle some around a bit. And I have to disagree with your assessment. I have added somewhere around 270 images to the website over the last 2 years. Tell you what... I'll put the calendar cover photo on the front page of the website so it looks different. I've been through a couple different web authoring software packages trying to find one that will suit our needs. Purchased yet another version a couple weeks ago. But your point could be well made in that all the fiddling around with cheap software has been turning into a waste when we could have just dropped ~$500 on good software and been done with it long ago. But the truth is, the website ranks very low on the scale for how members want to interface with the club. Thus it has only been getting functional updates (adding newsletters every month, posting the photo contests, running the sales pages in the store). And that's all that an overworked and understaffed BoD is going to be able to do at the moment. I wouldn't attempt to make the case for dropping that much $$ on web authoring software that isn't going to do very much to benefit the members.
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Post by akgh519 on Dec 3, 2013 14:09:45 GMT -9
I think the pics on the cover page need be changed more often. Maybe have a slide show with the updated page?
Every organization needs a good constantly updated web page. If not for the locals then for the rest of the world.
When out and about it would be nice to recommend going to the webpage without cringing.
Good luck with the latest software Scott. I hope it works out better for you and GAK.
I appreciate your efforts.
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Post by SSO JOAT on Dec 3, 2013 18:01:46 GMT -9
We do have some widgets on our server to play with. I believe the list includes a photo slide show application. I'm still working on structure and base layout, so I haven't gotten to the point of plugging in the fun stuff yet. That is actually the easy part.
Think of it like this... right now we have a run-down trailer house sitting on rotting blocks. We can hang pictures in it, but it's still a rotting trailer.
My project, well underway, is to build a new foundation next to the old trailer and set it up with a great floor plan. After the structure is in place, we can put up window dressings and hang pictures for all to see. Then toss a match on that old trailer house and sweep the ashes out of the way so everyone can see the new house we have built. The foundation and framing the walls requires a great deal of effort up front. But once it is in place, swapping photos and curtains around is a piece of cake.
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Post by akgh519 on Dec 3, 2013 19:30:27 GMT -9
Gotcha! As with most things there is more to it than it appears.
I look at the website as not so much for the local sourdough cacher. I think it is there to introduce the rest of the world and new local cheechakos to caching in Alaska and represent what GAK is all about. I feel it is much more important than FB or Twitter in accomplishing GAK's mission. FB and Twitter are for after the cacher has been introduced to the game in Alaska and hooked into GAK.
Thanks again for building GAK's new residence! And thanks for the update and insight.
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