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Post by knappling on Apr 9, 2007 5:59:00 GMT -9
Is it OK to use dog sledding trails now? I think I might need them to go find some caches in Far North Bicentennial Park.
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Post by oleruns on Apr 9, 2007 6:57:07 GMT -9
I would think it is ok, the snow is really soft. Just be ready to jump off the trail
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Post by omgcrew on Apr 9, 2007 10:04:15 GMT -9
How about ski trails?
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Post by knappling on Apr 9, 2007 18:07:48 GMT -9
As a skier I think it is OK to walk on muti-use trails like the Tour and Coastal trails, and other trails too if it doesn't look like they are being groomed anymore.
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Post by ladybugkids on Apr 10, 2007 16:26:39 GMT -9
Some trails (Kincaid and Hillside for certain) are still being groomed for skiing. You can watch the Alaska Ski Trail Report for updates.
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Post by knappling on Apr 10, 2007 18:05:53 GMT -9
I would stay off the Kincaid and Hillside trails for now because with warm weather it is hard for the trails to stay in good shape, especially with people walking on them, APU has also been groomed often lately (North of the Soccer Field and on the hill)
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Post by akteamroper on Mar 1, 2008 21:17:10 GMT -9
In my opinion they are multi use trails. So i feel that if you are courteous to the skiers and mushers then it shouldnt be a problem. I have a hard time with a group claiming rights to a public multi use area. Sure this wont be a popular statement its just my opinion. Just be courteous stay on the edges of the trail so any foot prints you might leave are out of the way.
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Post by ladybugkids on Mar 1, 2008 22:14:02 GMT -9
As a skier, skijorer, and musher, I'll add my two cents' worth here. If it's cold and the trails have set up so one can walk on the trails without leaving deep holes, I say go for it.
However, if it's warm or the trails haven't set up, I recommend staying off the groomed trails. Postholes from moose, horses and people present a real hazard to dogs running at sprint speeds. The lead dogs can see what's coming, but the swing (second from the lead) and any other dogs behind them cannot see where they are putting their feet. It frustrated me this afternoon to be skijoring on the Coastal Trail and see over the course of three hours the immaculately groomed trail prepared for tomorrow's Tour of Anchorage ski race beat to a pulp and pock marked by runners and mountain bikers.
The Tudor Track trails are used mostly between 10 a.m. and 4:00 p.m., so you'd have the trails mostly to yourself before and after those hours. With the Limited North American and Open North American races happening in Fairbanks the next two weeks, most of the teams are up north and after that, most mushers hang it up for the year.
An interesting difference between Anchorage and Fairbanks is that skijorers are welcomed onto the mushing trails in Fairbanks, but banned by ASDRA in Anchorage. Weird, since many skijorers end up making the jump to mushing (we did) and skijorer per dog capita trail donations exceed musher donations up north.
Skiers and mushers do tend to be militant about their trails due to the financial and sweat equity they put into many of the trail systems. Since everyone benefits from the trails throughout the year, it's be great if nonskiers and nonmushers bought trail pins, too!
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Post by troverover on Mar 1, 2008 22:15:20 GMT -9
I now understand the looks from skiiers I was getting as I pulled Arctic Rose on her sled down a kincaid trail last weekend. Oh well, not like I was pulling her in the tracks or getting in anyones way. I agree with akteamroper. I think there is enough room for everyones interests as long as we are all respectful of others. Besides, we had a blast!!! =0)
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Post by NorthWes on Mar 3, 2008 10:23:02 GMT -9
Read the trailhead signs and respect their dedicated use. It's the safe and courteous thing to do, period.
This isn't about hurt feelings or 'it's my park too' attitudes - it's about understanding trail use assignments and not being ignorant of the consequences of trail misuse. Some people get all worked up about their perceived 'right' to be on a trail regardless of what it's designed for, when if they understand how the system is designed they can save themselves (and the rest of the geocaching community) from getting a black eye... and learn that land use allocation of public spaces doesn't always include you as the dedicated user!
As a guy who makes signs for various trail user groups - MOA Parks (including Kincaid, Russian Jack, Centennial, Coastal Trail, Campbell Creek Trail, Chester Creek Trail, Far North Park, Ruth Arcand Equestrian Park, etc), Nordic Ski Assn of Anchorage (NSAA), SOA Parks (Chugach, the Mat-Su park units, Kenai area units), SOA DNR (yes - they manage lands with trails on them too), Bureau of Land Mgmt (BLM) Campbell Tract, BLM Iditarod Nat'l Historic Trail, various Natl Parks, Chugach National Forest, Tsalteshi Ski Assn (Kenai/Soldotna), Kenai Borough, Mat-Su Borough, City of Homer, UAA, APU, Lake Louise Snowmobilers Assn, Snomads (Homer), Caribou Hills Cabin Hoppers (Soldotna area), and many others - I will tell you that on every land managers' top three list of frustrations are the folks who don't read the trailhead signs and understand the 'priority of use' assignments for various trails.
What many folks don't realize is that dedicated-use trails are maintained by user groups at member expense for their specific dedicated use - NOT by the government entity which 'licenses' the trail assignment to the user group! The 'dedication' of that trail system to the user group for maintenance comes with the proviso that anyone can use it for its dedicated use, even though the 'licensed' user group is doing the maintenance. As an example, at Kincaid Park the NSAA grooms the various trails once snow falls - some as combi trails (both classic Nordic w/twin tracks, and as skate-style), and several as classic Nordic only. (Come summer, the NSAA trims back brush, mows occasionally, fills in low spots as necessary, and generally makes those winter ski trails a delight for walkers/runners/bikers etc.) All NSAA work is done primarily through membership dues (with the occasional gov't grant award thrown in). If you're not a member of NSAA, you're a 'free rider' when skiing on their members' work at Kincaid or any of the other 130km+ of trails they maintain around town - you should be thanking those folks with trail pins and window stickers for their contribution to the community! (membership ranges from basic individual at $20 each to family annual at $300... it's a significant budget to maintain those trails around the city!). (disclaimer - my family's a contributing NSAA 'member' - so yes, I have dual interests in this issue!)
When folks who aren't skiing or mushing walk on a trail that's dedicated and groomed for ski or mushing use they put themselves and the skier/musher/dog team who's using the trail in a speed conflict - they're much slower than the skier/team zooming along and reaction times aren't fast enough on many hills or corners to prevent collisions. Personal injury accidents occur every year out there because of speed conflict. Add the 'posthole' effect and its inherent dangers to skiers or dogmushers, and the person who's walking on a dedicated-use trail is now willfully creating a trail hazard for the dedicated users.
As geocachers, we need to be mindful of the impact our land use creates. When we willfully make improper use of trails dedicated to a specific purpose, we insult the user group maintaining that trail (whether through ignorance or willfulness, the improper use is viewed as an insult by the people who put their money and time into maintaining the trail - believe me!). Just as importantly, we put users and ourselves at physical risk, and we create negative publicity for the game.
Imagine the impact if land managers in city parks and on the BLM tract required removal of geocaches because our user group was making improper use of dedicated trails. Don't believe it's possible? Two land managers (BLM & MOA Parks) have asked if we will be sure to emphasize proper trail etiquette during geocache training events... because user groups have complained to them about geocachers walking on trails dedicated for other use.
By the way - there are enforcement consequences for trail misuse in some spots as well. BLM Campbell Tract already has issued very expensive (as much as $300!) tickets for improper trail use - they're posted and patrolled by a federal law enforcement officer. Kincaid Park is hosting the 2008 Junior Olympics Cross Country Ski Meet this month, effectively closing much of the park to use from the middle of this week through the middle of next week; you can't even expect to park in much of Kincaid without getting towed during this period (and yes - there will be plenty of signs in place telling you this - so don't plead 'I didn't know').
Read the trailhead signs and respect their dedicated use. It's the safe and courteous thing to do, period.
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Post by NorthWes on Mar 3, 2008 14:19:08 GMT -9
A follow-up note: see that the OP (original poster - knappling) was asking about using the dog mushing trails in April of '07... when the snow was shot for mushing here in town (what little was left then!). That's when the trails were reverting to 'multi-use' status... but when the snow's good enough to use for mushing, they're managed as musher-only trails and shouldn't be walked on. Incidentally, most of those musher trails cross or are on the BLM Campbell Tract - where there's probably the most 'active' enforcement of trail policing underway in the Anchorage bowl.
Wanted to make sure no one mistook today's post from me for a direct answer to knappling's original (excellent) question. That's what (in part) these forums are about - a polite but vigorous opportunity to exchange ideas and information.
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Post by li1gray on Mar 5, 2008 19:14:26 GMT -9
Wow lots of good information to read here and learn from too. I have used the mushing trails before and always ready to jump off the side if I hear or see a team. They have the right away. Just like those mules in the Grand Canyon. Stay to the side and don't move or make any noise while the dogs go by so you don't distract them. Id stay off of them even in snowshoes as soft as it is right now unless it freezes up again and then the trails will be fast for the dogs but terrible for skiing!
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Post by ladybugkids on Dec 30, 2012 18:14:30 GMT -9
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