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Post by Forum Admin on Sept 6, 2012 14:52:36 GMT -9
It may be harsh to call this vandalism but what should it be called when:
Yesterday I visited one of my caches. The essential camouflage was torn up to the point of being useless.
Come on folks! Let's be more careful with caches and logs.
I know I'm probably talking to the wrong crowd but it is up to all of us to educate catchers on etiquette.
A disappointed Scobey
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Post by SSO JOAT on Sept 6, 2012 18:15:36 GMT -9
I whole-heartedly agree with your assessment. I believe this is the "Christmas Morning Syndrome" and not "vandalism" per se. Lots of new and inexperienced cachers entering the game from walks of life. Many of them are thrilled by the "Easter egg hunt" and then the find and then getting the cache open to see what's inside. After that, they have their "thrill fix" and the process of putting the cache back as found takes second fiddle.
We've been preaching etiquette at our EduVents for the last 3 years, but in some regards I feel we're preaching to the choir as it's the same small group of mostly GeAK Sourdough members who show up to these events. The faceless hoards of "names on logs" cachers that continuously cycle through the sport are basically operating on their own and most of them probably don't know any better.
Doubt we're going to reach any of them via this forum either. The majority of new registrations on here are single visits. They find the site, register a name, look around, and then they never come back (I know this from the forum user stats).
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Post by ladybugkids on Sept 7, 2012 8:30:05 GMT -9
Yup.
Some cachers don't treat cache camo nicely and undo a creative cache hider's work.
Some cachers don't treat ground zero nicely, making the area within fifty feet of the hide look like a herd of elephants passed through.
Some cachers put screws in live trees which most likely wouldn't be well-received by the land manager in the future and certainly won't be perceived well by the poor guy who hits the screw with a chainsaw when/if the tree falls.
Some cachers don't understand "trade up or trade even," thereby leaving ammo cans that started with $50 or more in swag with little more than used up coffee stand cards and McToys.
Yup, some cachers just don't get it.
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FlightRiskAK
Bronze Cacher
Posts: 66
GeocacheAlaska! Membership Level: Sourdough
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Post by FlightRiskAK on Nov 1, 2012 9:07:52 GMT -9
Some cachers put screws in live trees which most likely wouldn't be well-received by the land manager in the future and cerainly won't be perceived well by the poor guy who hits the screw with a chainsaw when/if the tree falls.
I'm not sure that many cachers would realize the problem with this. I am guilty as charged on one of my hides but then it never occurred to me that this could be a problem since many trees in these woods have metal protruding from them in the form of "bearing tree" markers, reflectors on ski trails, other signage nailed or screwed to the trees, markers for night caches... I've found barbed wire embedded in trees, along with an assortment of other metal from days long ago.
Sometimes it just seems to be a perspective that not all cachers see or think of the same way. Just as this post provided education to me, we need to pay it forward and continue to educate other cachers.
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Post by ladybugkids on Nov 1, 2012 9:42:49 GMT -9
<snip>this could be a problem since many trees in these woods have metal protruding from them in the form of "bearing tree" markers, reflectors on ski trails, other signage nailed or screwed to the trees, markers for night caches... I've found barbed wire embedded in trees, along with an assortment of other metal from days long ago. What makes cache-related screws particularly insidious is that after the cache is gone, the screw is hidden. The other pieces metal referenced above typically have some external indication such as the remains of the reflector, the bearing tree sign, bird house, or the strands of barbed wire extending from the tree, so the tree cutter can remove or avoid the hazard(s). It's those wood screws sunk flat to the tree that nanos are stuck to that are probably the greatest hazard. Agreed. At my company, we try to communicate each bit of information six different ways in the hope that at least one of the means is heard and understood by everyone. Six of the means available to GeocacheAlaska! are these forums, the education events, the newsletter, the Facebook page, word of mouth the website, and caching pages that link to the Geocacher's Creed. The more of us who use as many of the above communications means as possible, the better!
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burtonsinak
Bronze Cacher
Posts: 60
GeocacheAlaska! Membership Level: Sourdough
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Post by burtonsinak on Nov 1, 2012 10:05:36 GMT -9
So... how can we help cachers know and learn not to do this when we are seeing new caches come out this way and the cacher that repeats this type of mounting in LIVE trees? Dead trees are ok then? but then chain saws will still be affected? I dont want to come out as the cache police but then we dont want some to ruin it or make it it hard or others to look bad by doing what is not permited by geocaching.
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Post by SSO JOAT on Nov 1, 2012 18:19:16 GMT -9
It may seem like a rock and a hard place argument, but the fact is fairly clear. People follow by example. Thus, if there are caches that are placed contrary to the guidelines, they will be seen by newer cachers, who will think that method is OK. Some of those people go on to place their own caches and use the same methods.
If bad hides are "policed" up early and often by the caching community at large, we are hopefully removing the bad examples that others would follow. There is a method that must be taken for this to be successful and to avoid being labeled as the "cache police".
First, "police" your own work. In my early caching days, I too saw hides that were nailed or screwed to trees and such. I placed a hide or two that also used screws for attachment. Now that I know better, I've gone back and redone those hides using a different method of attachment and removed any screws in the process. I still have 2 hides out there with screws in them; one is a hide that I actually flirt with archiving which has 2 screws holding the container to a man-made post. I haven't done so because I have yet to receive a complaint and it is a frequently favorited cache. The other has a large device screwed to the chainsaw cut end of a dead and rolled over stump in the woods. The size and security of the device make it improbable that the device will ever "fall off" and being on the cut end, there is no real chance that someone would hit one of those 3 screws with a chainsaw. In both cases, the hide is fixed in position, so there is no chance the object is going to come off and leave a screw in place. The screws will have to be removed before the item is free. This is the only reason I've allowed myself to keep these in play.
When you discover a hide that really does need to be changed, it is imperative that the message is communicated with tact. Be helpful and friendly. I believe the real problems with the perception of "cache police" came from people entering a Needs Archived log for such hides with no attempt to talk to the CO. In most cases, an alternative method of securing the hide can probably be worked out. Remove the screw and use a piece of cord or string to attach the cache, etc. If you come up with a solution to the problem and then contact the CO personally to explain why we are trying to eliminate that type of hide and then offer them a better solution to fix it, you will get better results.
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Post by NorthWes on Nov 5, 2012 6:21:42 GMT -9
Thoughtful answers, Scott. It all comes back to education, doesn't it?
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